ZSS down b kick/hooligan kick?

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

After watching Shuffle V, I began to wonder if anyone knew that the down b kick can be combo'd into reliably and kills earlier than bair. I never once saw Oro?! use it (this is what prompted me to post this). After a string of uairs/nairs I saw Oro simply go for another nair/uair to put the opponent off stage/above them when he could have got a down b. The startup of this move is super strong and is safe to combo into on stage/off stage if you b reverse it.

I'm not 100% sure that its earlier than bair, but it is certainly within 5-10% of it (a ZSS player I know swore it was earlier but the KO data i have says otherwise).

 

[ph00tbag]

Oro usually goes for it, but a lot of his opponents were DIing out/punishing him for it for trying.

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

Oro usually goes for it, but a lot of his opponents were DIing out/punishing him for it for trying.

OK cool thanks. I guess its not quite as good as I thought.

 

[ph00tbag]

It's quite good, but using it definitely requires a lot more awareness than it would first seem. I think once we get better at DI manipulation and yomi, it'll start to come back, it'll just be more of a combo-video worthy thing. Like Falcon combos into knee.

 

[Oro?!]

I played a lot of awkward weight/size/fallspeed characters at Shuffle. It's pretty reliable against every fastfaller to be honest.

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

I played a lot of awkward weight/size/fallspeed characters at Shuffle. It's pretty reliable against every fastfaller to be honest.

Yeah I gotcha. I definitely agree you have to intimately familiar with the MU to get it reliably.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Or just you can use it against a recovering opponent who is slow to recover. Just jump cancel it and tether back after you hit (or miss).

 

[radiogiraffe]

Dair to down b kick is a true combo with di or not. If they fail to di just dair again. It's a great option especially because zss' down b kick has set trajectory so no matter where they di you can follow up and hit them off stage no matter which way zss is facing. This is usefull when you are unable to land a bair. You can even follow up if they di off stage if you save your jump. It's zss' best hit confirm move. Good if you use dair OoS a lot.

 

[Axrz]

Dair OoS isn't very safe, and I'm kind of doubting dair to down b is a true combo. Do you have a video of it?

 

[radiogiraffe]

Just go into training mode and test it yourself. I think dair is the only way to truly combo into down b kick. No other moves have enough hitstun to count as a consecutive hit in training even with bad di.