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Zelda and Ness Match-up questions

Redrooster1492

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Savannah/Statesboro, Ga
So I am a hard time dealing with a zelda and Ness currently. The zelda is so damn campy and won't approach in the slightest, and when I approach she dodges and/or Neutral-B. What are some good ways to approach her? What is just a general match-up plan?

The ness is just annoying. He sits there an spams pk-fire and and his yo-yo moves and I can approach well with him pumping them out. I have tried approaching in the air, but then he jumps into the pk fire or f-air. What are some solid approaching methods and just general match-up advice. Both of these players are so damn campy.... Any advice on Kirby is also welcome. I am still new to Kirby so I am learning. Thanks!!
 

Gnosis_

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
5
I don't completely know how to analyze the matchup, but I can provide some videos so that you can attempt to get something out of it.
Zelda
ht tps://ww w.yout ube.co m/wa tch?v=NpMY0D9RdI8&list=UUKqrr81-nHHRp_kB956O7_w

Ness
ht tps://ww w.you tube.co m/wa tch?v=et3yuR0shtQ&list=UUKqrr81-nHHRp_kB956O7_w <--- lotta matchup content, but very old gameplay plus i kinda sandbagged the first set.
ht tps://ww w.you tube.co m/wa tch?v=9wKdqGH2vAM&list=UUKqrr81-nHHRp_kB956O7_w

For all your doubles pleasure
ht tps://ww w.yout ube.co m/wa tch?v=b47fjljkOX8&list=UUKqrr81-nHHRp_kB956O7_w
ht tps://w ww.you tube.co m/wa tch?v=AT66h1HuzIE&list=UUKqrr81-nHHRp_kB956O7_w

Honestly, I feel the Zelda matchup is in kirby's favor simply because he can crouch her f-smash and grab. He can weave around her din's, get out of grab game due to floatiness, recover without worrying about din's, chaingrab her at certain percents, get din's yourself and use (never done it myself but in theory it should be useful). Also, when zelda performs naryu's love, just attack her head (which apparently doesn't have invincibility on it) with shorthop fair or nair.

Ness is about a 50/50 matchup. His down throw has guaranteed followups. I suggest DI-ing forward and SDI-ing away the f-air that will have to be his followup. Uhhh, combo game against ness is pretty strong because of his fall speed. PK fire is easy to avoid, just don't stay in shield for too long because it activates on shield too. If you can powershield it, then that is your best tool against it. Personally, I can't powershield because kirby's shield sucks for powershielding in relation to his body. If you do get hit by a PK fire, just keep jumping and SDI-ing upwards to avoid the typical grab that will often follow getting hit. Edgeguard game is easy on ness because kirby's aerials have a disjoint and ness's up-b doesn't. You can just throw out nair or bair against the trajectory of his up-b if you can predict where he will be going. Make sure to watch out for the 7 frames of invincibility on his up-b. Inhaling his power is a useful tool because the power is actually broken right now. It can reach at very low levels, which can be useful for safe edgeguarding. Try not to heal him with it though. To gimp ness easily, with your multiple jumps and floatiness, you can just throw your body into his PK thunder because there isn't much he can do about it.

I can't really tell you much else. The people in these videos Zeej and Irish are two of the better players in Oklahoma. Zeej is probably top 5 in Oklahoma and arguably the second best ness in PM. Irish is most likely top 12 in Oklahoma. Their gameplay is very solid.

I left spaces in the links because i don't post often and smashboard wont let me link things

Additionally, sorry about crap quality. Oklahoma was an early developing state at the time, so the stream quality was not that great.
 
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Gnosis_

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
5
http s://w ww.you tube.co m/wa tch?v=gJc3vtUX9QU
Best kirby and best zelda up in here, up in here
I love you kaysick
 
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Gnosis_

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
5
Sorry about that. I meant Naryu's love.
Additionally, forget the part about attacking zelda's head during naryu's love. I don't know what I'm talking about anymore.
 
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Garde Noir

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
261
Location
West Chester, PA
For a second, I thought this was a question about Ness in the Zelda Forum... ha...ha....

Being an old Zelda Main, Know that Zelda's have a panic button in Nayru's Love. Dodge out of it, and take advantage of the severe amount of lag before the next move.
Another Thing is Teledashing, which may look cool, and put spacing in, but leaves little for attacks afterwards. Din's is pretty easy to avoid, but the main part is Zelda's best kill move: Lightning Kick.
The best way to dodge it is simply to use Rock when you're recovering down.

Zelda is vulnerable to f-air and n-air, as they have multiple hits, and combo well. Good edgeguarding is ESSENTIAL. And sweet spotting the ledge is necessary. All Zelda's know to put the Din's right at the ledge, but Up-B neutralizes it.

As for the Ness match-up, Ness is all aerial, and suffers in the ground game. Stick to the ground and you should be okay. His recovery is unreliable, and vulnerable to Up-B's sword length. Dash attacks are GREAT followed by up-smash.
 

Unwavering_Canadian

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
75
Zelda: Crouch a lot with d-tilt, grab, use chain grabs, finish chain grabs with a smash.
Ness: Shield pk fire and instantly roll out, punish when they chase you. Up tilt and aerial combo, gimp pretty easily once off stage.
 

Garde Noir

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
261
Location
West Chester, PA
After some testing, I'm back with some more.
Ness is pretty vulnerable to dash attack, and relies on really quick combos. A really cheap but somewhat effective way I've found is to spam the A button while DI-ing. All of Kirby's standard attacks have very little lag, and do pretty well. A somewhat decent way to approach is simply the Side Swipe Sword. From there, do a nair or f-air, into Hammer, and you've got him offstage almost all the time. As he attempts to recover, he'll do the jump first, and try and recover upward. Stay below him and try and Up-air, or if you can, upsmash. Up-air juggles a bit, while Up-smash is the best killing move.
 

SSS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
858
Location
Glendale, AZ (rip Irvine, CA)
Ness isn't crazy vulnerable to dash attack. If you get stupid it's really easy for him to jump back and PKF.

Also don't try to camp the ledge or else you'll get hit by a ******** neutral B. . .lol.

ALSO don't try do the thing where you drop off the edge and double jump with an aerial (whatever that's called), or you'll get batted in the face.

ALSO ALSO there's a matchup thread. :kirby2:
 

Redrooster1492

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Savannah/Statesboro, Ga
WOW. So much.. lol I am definitely bout to try a lot of this out on them and see. I ended up crouching zelda and did a few feigns to bait out the neutral-B and that worked well. I will check this out when I play those guys again and hopefully get some good results!!!
Thanks!!!!
 
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