Zamus: What's the learning curve like?

[i.E.]

Hey, so I picked up ZSS yesterday for fun during a friendly, and I like the way she plays.....i DID NOT win a ton with her, because I've literally never picked her up ( I know, crazy right?).

Just curious, how steep would you say the learning curve on ZSS is?

 

[DeliciousCake]

Higher than most.

 

[i.E.]

Higher than most.

Good enough answer.
thanks.

 

[Diddy King]

Weird, I picked her up yesterday too and was wondering the same thing. But hey, If I can use ness in melee I can use ZSS in brawl......right?

 

[FadedImage]

higher than most is a good summation. get used to hating shield pressure and never using grab. then learn how to footstool. those are a couple of the big differences. d:

 

[Deleted member]

lower than link, higher than MK

 

[7thFonon]

I think the hardest thing to adapt to for most people is Zero's short hop. You can't use it out of shield and have a high hit success rate like some characters such as Wario or Marth. Also the down B + up B recovery may take time for some people to get used to. Those I think are the hardest to deal with for newer Zero Suit users...

 

[DeliciousCake]

Proper use of specials and spacing is a key factor as well.

 

[Cubone]

My biggest issue is learning to recover, otherwise It wasn't too terrible. (I'm used to ROB so I had my freaking oober, fly back from anywhere recovery)

Then again I wouldn't exactly call myself a great zamus either...

 

[ph00tbag]

Proper use of specials and spacing is a key factor as well.

Also, learning never to use fsmash.

 

[cr00mz]

Also, learning never to use fsmash.

why should you not use fsmash?

 

[ph00tbag]

why should you not use fsmash?

Because it's a horrible, horrible move.

 

[cr00mz]

Because it's a horrible, horrible move.

so there is not a single moment where you say "**** i should have used fsmash"?

 

[NeoZero]

Not really, no. The move is a weaker version of the side B. Not only that, but side B comes out as fast and has less lag. You can also use it with short hops to space. The only reason you would want to use it would be for mindgames or if your side B is horribly decayed / weakened from repeated use.

I would say that Side B is a better choice 9/10 times, if not more.

 

[7thFonon]

It's not a bad move. Just a bad move to use on a shielding opponent or an opponent that has all options. Example : 2 jumps, sheild, move, attack, etc. Startup time is pretty decent, it is the recovery time which is bad. You can't use in a situation where your oppoenent can touch you if you miss with this attack. I actually explained how I use this on the "2 Questions" ZSS Thread, but its kind of long to re-type. The Forward Smash is only as bad as how you use it.


Edit: Like what Neo said though, you really should still be using side B more than this move. But it shouldn't be disregaurded, it has some great uses.

 

[cr00mz]

ok thanks for the answer and sorry if it was a stupid question, I dont play competative but still it nice to know what is good and what is not

 

[i.E.]

Alrighty...few questions guys.

Concerning her recovery, I haven't had many problems yet, but aside from her tether...are there any recovery uses with her down B? I read somewhere on the first page of this post to get used to her "B+ up B" recovery. Any specifics on what exactly that is and how to do it?

Another thing, a lot of you mentioned that side B is almost always more useful and a better move than her forward smash. Which i agree with 100 percent from what I've played with her. BUT, the only time i tend to use her forward smash is when i hit with my downsmash, and my opponent's at a high percent. Instead of using forward B, i tend to charge up my forward smash for a second (since I have the spare time with the hit stun). Is this still not as viable or useful/good as the forward b in that situaion?

 

[ph00tbag]

Is this still not as viable or useful/good as the forward b in that situaion?

At low percents, it could be better than Plasma Whip, if the latter is rather decayed. You'll never realistically be able to charge the fsmash the whole way during a stun (if you can, you're doing something very, very wrong). Furthermore, only the closest part of the fsmash can be charged, and it will probably only get to 13-14% and a tad bit more knockback than usual, which isn't really all that much. Plasma Whip does 16% fresh and around 14% with one instance in the move queue. At that point, it'll still have better knockback than a fresh fsmash, I believe.

Regardless, even at low percent, following up a dsmash with another dsmash then an aerial is almost always better. For instance, the first dsmash (assuming it's fresh) will do 11%. The next one will do something like 10%, and then if you follow up with a nair, that's a 31% combo, as compared to a 24% combo. You could also just do one dsmash, follow up with a SHFF uair into a Plasma Wire spike to a utilt. That's a 21-22% combo right there, if your uair has been used once or twice.

 

[i.E.]

At low percents, it could be better than Plasma Whip, if the latter is rather decayed. You'll never realistically be able to charge the fsmash the whole way during a stun (if you can, you're doing something very, very wrong). Furthermore, only the closest part of the fsmash can be charged, and it will probably only get to 13-14% and a tad bit more knockback than usual, which isn't really all that much. Plasma Whip does 16% fresh and around 14% with one instance in the move queue. At that point, it'll still have better knockback than a fresh fsmash, I believe.

Regardless, even at low percent, following up a dsmash with another dsmash then an aerial is almost always better. For instance, the first dsmash (assuming it's fresh) will do 11%. The next one will do something like 10%, and then if you follow up with a nair, that's a 31% combo, as compared to a 24% combo. You could also just do one dsmash, follow up with a SHFF uair into a Plasma Wire spike to a utilt. That's a 21-22% combo right there, if your uair has been used once or twice.

Very nice combos there. I'll experiment. Also, one last question; if you get your opponent above you on a ledge or a platform, can you get them caught in a chain of plasma wire spikes? As in, Up B>>>they get sent into the air but then back down onto the platform due to the spike>>>Up B again>>>etc. etc....

Possible? Or can they usually roll dodge/DI?

 

[Adapt]

you can normally DI it, but its still worth trying to get the extra 10-20% damage in. Because it is nearly impossible to retaliate against you in that position

Also, about f-smash: If you d-smash someone pretty near the edge and they are around 160% (less if you know how to properly sweetspot the f-smash), then I would use f-smash to kill them. Your other option is a second d-smash and a fair/bair. Either will work, but the other moves are more useful than f-smash and you should try to keep them fresh. Using F-smash allows you to revive other moves, and is still a guaranteed kill.

I can't think of any other circumstance where f-smash is useful. I do use it to switch things up and keep the opponent off balance, but only rarely.

 

[FBM]

I'd say ZSS has a solid learning curve, but it really depends on how she fits your style. She just really "suits" me for some reason, so I didn't find it to be too bad.

And as far as fsmash goes, the only time I can think of when I would EVER use it is if my opponent is at like 150+% and I just landed a dsmash (not in the middle of the stage) AND I'm worried that their % is too high to easily time a bair into the post-stun knockback AND I'm worried that they are sitting where the deadzone of the side-B is, so I use the fsmash for the guaranteed kill.

 

[Bouse]

I actually like using the Fsmash after a double Dsmash just for purposes of having style.

I call it the "Madame Guillotine."

 

[Boolossus]

ZSS has a pretty high learning curve imo. Heck, she's one of only two characters that I use and I still feel clumsy with her sometimes. Her extremely high aerial mobility and super high jumps makes it difficult for new players to control her in the air. Her fsmash is next to useless too, and you have to be really smart to land grabs, or else you'll be punished like crazy. Also, her recovery is super easy to gimp unless the ZSS player knows her recovery inside and out.

 

[Tezmata]

Unlike most characters, I wouldn't say there's really a "middle ground" for ZSS mains. You're either good with her or not. For me, it was like a switch turned on and suddenly I felt like I owned with her after being pretty poor. I think the big reason for this is (as mentioned above) that you really have to understand her recovery. Once you know the ins and outs of it, her recovery goes from being dreadful to deadly.

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

so there is not a single moment where you say "**** i should have used fsmash"?

The only time I use it besides when side B is decayed is when they are slightly above me, because fsmash attacks with much more vertical range then side B. It can hit them then and they will be confused as to why you are using such a bad move.

 

[BUNI]

Alrighty...few questions guys.

Concerning her recovery, I haven't had many problems yet, but aside from her tether...are there any recovery uses with her down B?

Learn it, Love it, Dont abuse it (too much).

 

[BAND!T]

only time i use her fsmash is if i have a roll ***** opponent. it hits behind you enough to get them off your back. and as for recovery.. vB footstool is quite fun. and ive heard try to tether from the side and not from below. so DI up, to the top corners. and her learning curve is pretty high. just learn all her little tricks and incorporate it. BTW, should a zamus play more offensively or defensively?

 

[ph00tbag]

BTW, should a zamus play more offensively or defensively?

A zamus should play aggressively, whether on offense or defense. Preempt your opponent with tilts and jabs on defense, and don't let off on offense until you have to.

 

[Taalcon]

Lolz, the only time I've ever actually hit with a forward smash is if I accidentally forward smash instead of tilt, and because my friends are sidestep spammers, they get hit after invincibility ends XD.