Your ideas for fixing "Bad/Poor" Custom Moves

[Buffoon]

How alter change or alter the customs that seem lackluster? Admittedly, replacing them would be more ideal; but if you were able to change something to make a move more useful, what would those changes be?

Personally, I'd change most of the Hi-Jump Specials (e.g. Super Jump, Dolphin Jump, Whirling Leap, etc.) to act like Sonic's Spring Jump, i.e., aerials and air-dodges can be performed while the character is midair.

 

[Eisal]

A lot of the customs are just like their original move, except having different conditions and boons.

If i can feel a bit spoiled - It would be neat to see every character having the Palutena treatment with their customs, changing the moves completely.

I don't know if that would make customs more open to tournaments or even more disliked.

 

[Rashyboy05]

A lot of the customs are just like their original move, except having different conditions and boons.

If i can feel a bit spoiled - It would be neat to see every character having the Palutena treatment with their customs, changing the moves completely.

I don't know if that would make customs more open to tournaments or even more disliked.

Imo, if they made the customs accessible in the first place without having to unlock them. People wouldn't dislike customs/

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

My idea is to keep them almost completely different, but have different types of effects. (ex: Mario's fireball, there are two customs for normal, fast and weak, or slow and strong. I would want something like, a slow and furn effect like Lucas' PK Fire, and one that's a blue fireball that is a little bit faster, but freezes foes.) I would also like custom A button moves if possible.

 

[Wintropy]

I think customs would benefit from further balance patches. There's concern that several customs (e.g. Kong Cyclone, Explosive Balloon Trip) are straight "upgrades" to the default specials with no compensatory trade-off; other customs tend to be regarded as fundamentally weaker than the default move (e.g. Dark Vault, Big Fireball), but that's often more so a matter of context than being objectively worse, since most people define custom viability based on tournament rulesets.

If every custom was tweaked so there's a reason to use every move in a certain context, I think it'd make customs more viable and palatable. The way it is right now, there are just some moves that are better in most circumstances than others, and some moves that there's no good reason to use instead.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

An option to maybe replace a move with a different special's custom move? If only I could replace Yoshi's side-B with Lick or Timed Egg Toss, or Warlock Punch with Wizard's Dropkick.

 

[Wintropy]

An option to maybe replace a move with a different special's custom move? If only I could replace Yoshi's side-B with Lick or Timed Egg Toss, or Warlock Punch with Wizard's Dropkick.

This is a very good idea which my brother and I have discussed before.

We reckon it'd be good for characters like Sheik, so Bouncing Fish can be mapped to side-b and Burst Grenade (or the equivalent customs) to down-b in order to mitigate accidental side-b slip-ups when trying to recover; you could do a similar thing with Zelda if you wanted to, just replace Din's Fire with Nayru's Love (or, here again, the equivalent customs) and swap them around to avoid falling to your death with side-b suicide.

 

[CrazyPerson]

An option to maybe replace a move with a different special's custom move? If only I could replace Yoshi's side-B with Lick or Timed Egg Toss, or Warlock Punch with Wizard's Dropkick.

Is this just remapping... say allowing link to set bomb of his choice to side special, thus moving his boomerang to down special,bombs side special instead of down, or allowing link to have up to 3 types of bombs if he is willing to forfiet is boomerang and recovery. (Link doing that would be a terrible idea, trying to understand what is being said not suggest an idea)

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Is this just remapping... say allowing link to set bomb of his choice to side special, thus moving his boomerang to down special,bombs side special instead of down, or allowing link to have up to 3 types of bombs if he is willing to forfiet is boomerang and recovery. (Link doing that would be a terrible idea, trying to understand what is being said not suggest an idea)

The latter, but with only one special move. So Ganondorf could have WDK/Flame Choke/Dark Fists/Wizard's Foot, but not WDK/Wizard's Assault/Dark Fists/Wizard's Foot.

 

[Raijinken]

I feel like most recovery-type up specials basically need invulnerability to be worth even considering. Obviously there are exceptions like High Speed Burner.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Get rid of them and replace them with better ones. Honestly, there are some custom moves where the concept alone is too ******** to warrant "fixing." Like, say, for example, Warlock Thrust. A slightly faster, but still slow, Warlock Punch, with a weak sweetspot, and an even weaker sourspot, and is all-around outclassed by the other two Warlock Punches, and is essentially a bootleg forward smash. Does it sound good on paper? No. Is the execution good? No. It's beyond any sort of buffing or fixing, and so the best course of action would be to replace it with something good, like maybe a Warlock Shot, which could give Ganondorf a projectile that he could greatly benefit from.

 

[Raijinken]

Get rid of them and replace them with better ones. Honestly, there are some custom moves where the concept alone is too ******** to warrant "fixing." Like, say, for example, Warlock Thrust. A slightly faster, but still slow, Warlock Punch, with a weak sweetspot, and an even weaker sourspot, and is all-around outclassed by the other two Warlock Punches, and is essentially a bootleg forward smash. Does it sound good on paper? No. Is the execution good? No. It's beyond any sort of buffing or fixing, and so the best course of action would be to replace it with something good, like maybe a Warlock Shot, which could give Ganondorf a projectile that he could greatly benefit from.

That or they could make it so fast that it was actually useful regardless of its weakness. In most cases, there are ways to tweak them to usefulness, but in that case, taking a move designed as a read/punish and making it weak without making it fast enough to use elsewhere just doesn't really work.

I do agree with the idea of replacing things, but I've yet to see evidence that Sakurai will adopt that design philosophy.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That or they could make it so fast that it was actually useful regardless of its weakness. In most cases, there are ways to tweak them to usefulness, but in that case, taking a move designed as a read/punish and making it weak without making it fast enough to use elsewhere just doesn't really work.

I do agree with the idea of replacing things, but I've yet to see evidence that Sakurai will adopt that design philosophy.

Even making it faster, it would still be outclassed by Warlock Blade. Which brings me to the next custom move archetype, the ones that have good concepts, but are either done poorly or are too outclassed by other moves to make them useful. For this example, I use Catch & Release. It's obviously designed specifically for characters with no projectiles, but Guardian Luma outclassed it so grossly that there's literally never a reason to use Catch & Release over Guardian Luma.

 

[Dokokashira]

I'd change Wakie-Wakie to one have of these two effects:

1) Keep the move functionally the same, but remove the obnoxious sound and vacuum effect that appears, so that it looks and acts just like normal Rest... at first. Imagine the surprise on your opponent's face when they charge up a smash attack to punish your whiffed "Rest", but they get launched instead a massive explosion instead!

2) Have the explosion come out as soon as you input down + B, just like normal Rest. I'm not sure if this would make any of the other custom Rest specials obsolete, though... Increase Wakie-Wakie's endlag? Make Rest and Leaping inflict more knockback? Nerf Wakie-Wakie's power? I don't know.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I'd remove them for everyone except for the Miis. There, problem solved.

 

[ImRonan]

I want to say something about lazy shuttle loop but I can't think of a single way to fix it without scrapping the entire move.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I want to say something about lazy shuttle loop but I can't think of a single way to fix it without scrapping the entire move.

Maybe make it a tad bit faster and go higher?

 

[MarioMeteor]

I'd change Wakie-Wakie to one have of these two effects:

1) Keep the move functionally the same, but remove the obnoxious sound and vacuum effect that appears, so that it looks and acts just like normal Rest... at first. Imagine the surprise on your opponent's face when they charge up a smash attack to punish your whiffed "Rest", but they get launched instead a massive explosion instead!

2) Have the explosion come out as soon as you input down + B, just like normal Rest. I'm not sure if this would make any of the other custom Rest specials obsolete, though... Increase Wakie-Wakie's endlag? Make Rest and Leaping inflict more knockback? Nerf Wakie-Wakie's power? I don't know.

For one, remove the self-harm effect, it's not Self Destruct. I'd make it more like a counter. She goes to sleep with no hitbox, but if you touch her, then she explodes.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'd scrap about half of them.

Completely serious here. Ditch every single custom that's worthless (most Uspecials lacking a hitbox, things like Samus's Melee Charge Shot) and every minor side-grade (reflector customs in general, things like Mac's Straight Lunge customs) so we can focus on what's left. Heck, might as well scrap the straight upgrades too. Customs don't need to be distributed evenly, across characters or across specials. If we ditched the fluff that'd cut down on unlocking by 50% and it wouldn't be as overwhelming.