would playing on dolphin have input lag?

[thatoneguy1]

i use my hd tv as a monitor if that detail helps.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Theres always input lag with any setup.

how perceptible is dependant on a lot of other things.

 

[SIN Shinryu]

I play on my computer with 1080p everything pretty much, and it runs way better than it does on my HDTV with the Wii. From what I've read it's really the Wii's probably mainly, but yeah there will always be some lag.

 

[Vorde]

From the research I have done on TVs and setups, there would be input lag, just whether you can feel it or not. HDTVs are notorious for having high amounts of it, especially bigger and more expensive HDTVs (more post-processing effects are put on to clean up the image and make it look nicer, however it also increases how long it takes for the TV to produce the frames displayed). Most computer monitors have lower amounts of it (until they start getting much larger). Some computer monitors are designed to have little to no input lag (ASUS 247H monitors used at EVO for Street Fighter and BenQ brands as well). Also Dolphin could have input lag or the adapter you're using to use a gamecube controller. Many things play into it.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Misconception: bigger and expensive TV's are bad.

The Best lcd TV's are expensive.
You just have to buy the right one.

 

[GFooChombey]

From the research I have done on TVs and setups, there would be input lag, just whether you can feel it or not. HDTVs are notorious for having high amounts of it, especially bigger and more expensive HDTVs (more post-processing effects are put on to clean up the image and make it look nicer, however it also increases how long it takes for the TV to produce the frames displayed). Most computer monitors have lower amounts of it (until they start getting much larger). Some computer monitors are designed to have little to no input lag (ASUS 247H monitors used at EVO for Street Fighter and BenQ brands as well). Also Dolphin could have input lag or the adapter you're using to use a gamecube controller. Many things play into it.

Why can't ASUS make a monitor with component cables..

 

[thatoneguy1]

so even my res is 1360x768 and i set it to that in dolphin it would still lag? i get that a wii has to upscale an image though. It seems worlds apart in terms of input as the timings for wavedash seem extremely different especially with ganon.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Dude, we can't tell you how much lag you have.
You have to tell us.

As I said there's always time between hitting a button and the effect on the screen. It's just if you can perceive it.

 

[Vorde]

so even my res is 1360x768 and i set it to that in dolphin it would still lag? i get that a wii has to upscale an image though. It seems worlds apart in terms of input as the timings for wavedash seem extremely different especially with ganon.

Your Wii doesn't do any scaling. Your TV or monitor does that for you.

Misconception: bigger and expensive TV's are bad.

The Best lcd TV's are expensive.
You just have to buy the right one.

Yeah you're right, but from the threads and testing I've seen done in the tech section of the Shoryuken.com forums, most TVs that are bigger are worse since there's more work to be done to clean up the image since the frames are so large and stretched. Maybe I'm completely wrong but that's what I've seen.

Rule of Thumb: If you want the closest to lagless display, go with a CRT TV or CRT computer monitor. Looks like crap, but damn it works well

 

[Narpas_sword]

And if you want it to look good, buy a really good monitor =p

 

[Landonio]

HD will ALWAYS have lag. It's just a matter of how much and if you can notice it or not. Playing on Dolphin will always have more lag than playing on a Wii on an SDTV, which is the way to go.

 

[thatoneguy1]

so say both are on the same hd tv would dolphin have noticeably less lag than the wii because it can run higher res or what?

 

[Landonio]

so say both are on the same hd tv would dolphin have noticeably less lag than the wii because it can run higher res or what?

Well the Wii version would be played using component or composite cables, which both cause major lag on HDTVs. Component tends to carry a lot more lag than VGA and even HDMI. So yes, in that instance the Wii version would have more input lag than the Dolphin version, assuming that the Dolphin version is being played on a decent TV/monitor. Because the Wii version would have to run component or composite on an HDTV and the Dolphin version would be using HDMI or VGA.

But like I said, the Wii version on an SDTV is the way to go and has virtually 0 lag.

 

[thatoneguy1]

can component cables hook up to one? i have a sound system as well so idk how that would work.

 

[Narpas_sword]

component doesnt carry lag =/

its the signal type having to get converted, then the tv having to upscale it, its all the processor on the tv, nothing to do with the cables.

 

[Landonio]

component doesnt carry lag =/

its the signal type having to get converted, then the tv having to upscale it, its all the processor on the tv, nothing to do with the cables.

Exactly, but simple mis-use of words. Should have said "have" instead of "carry". My mistake. You get what I'm trying to say though. Fact remains that playing anything using composite or component cables on an HDTV will always have more lag than playing using HDMI or VGA, and that SD/CRTV is the way to go for Smash and a lot of other competitive games on console (like Halo).

 

[AAkacia]

I use a BenQ gaming monitor to play on via Dolphin. Dolphin inherently has 1 frame of input lag (1/60th of 1 second).

I recently ran a test in SSBM that calculates the amount of input lag by doing the following:
-Input Lag test -
Character flashes red every 2 seconds
Input UP on the D-pad on each red flash
you character's percent changes based on the amount of frames between the flash and the input. Here is a link to the test and results. The first few were user input error on my part but as you can see, the lag is "0". How? Because modern gaming monitors (they are expensive) are roughly equivalent to CRT. In this case, better (or the input lag would be at least 1 frame since dolphin has 1 frame of lag inherently).

P.S. - "0" frames of input lag is using an average CRT. CRT's actually have 8.33frames of input lag. I can link to a source if anyone needs it.

 

[thatoneguy1]

i havent done any technical testing but swapping between dolphin and a crt i barely notice a difference if any when playing fox.

 

[GaretHax]

Wow this thread is silly. Lag on HDTV's is caused by upscaling, the reason it lags is because the cpu's in most tv's are terrible and cannot efficiently upscale the image from the wii's native 480 to the TV's native resolution. As a side note the physical size of the TV will not make any difference whatsoever 9 times out of 10.

Upscaling will not be an issue with dolphin or most monitors, though some programs or adapters can bring small amounts of lag back into play. Windows aero is trash

 

[Narpas_sword]

except, it's not ONLY caused by upscaling.
Various other video processing is done and can cause lag depending on your tv. Even with a 1080p source.

 

[GaretHax]

except, it's not ONLY caused by upscaling.
Various other video processing is done and can cause lag depending on your tv. Even with a 1080p source.

Upscaling isn't even a problem, it is just the most common catalyst for the detection and exaggeration of cheap components. It also happens to be the only relevant issue concerning wii's. As far as monitors are concerned, all but the worst should have undetectable latency between the screen and input.

 

[thatoneguy1]

im lost now lol

 

[Thamauturge]

Just play it with Dolphin. Even if "there's still lag" as some people are saying, its basically next to nothing. I know that I at least feel nothing different about playing it on my laptop compared with an SDTV.

 

[thatoneguy1]

So would the size of a crt matter? Im about to get a 32 inch so me and friends can play instead of buying 2 gc adapters for dolphin.

 

[Narpas_sword]

size is never the factor.

CRTs will be fine lag wise, it's their awful picture quality you have to look for.
i.e., if its second hand, (which, yes, i doubt you'll be getting a new crt...)
Look for colour bleed, age, and general ****ty picture. etc.

 

[AAkacia]

Just play it with Dolphin. Even if "there's still lag" as some people are saying, its basically next to nothing. I know that I at least feel nothing different about playing it on my laptop compared with an SDTV.

If you have a good computer that runs smash at 60fps through dolphin, there is only 1 frame of input lag caused by mayflash adapter and dolphin. If your monitor/laptop screen is up to the modern standard for response time it's typically beween 7 - 9 frames of response time (CRT's are 8.333--). This isn't noticed because of the innate time it takes for our eyes to give us visual cues.

TL:DR - Dolphin has 1 frame of input lag with a good setup.

 

[Narpas_sword]

If your monitor/laptop screen is up to the modern standard for response time it's typically beween 7 - 9 frames of response time (CRT's are 8.333--).

^ you mean ms, not frames right?

 

[AAkacia]

^ you mean ms, not frames right?

Yes. Sorry. 8.3ms is still less than 1 frame, for anyone curious.

8ms = 1/125 of 1 second
1 frame = 1/60 of 1 second

 

[Narpas_sword]

to clarify, for people who don't want to math, thats:
1 frame = 0.167s (16.67ms)

=)