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Would it be possible to create a super computer for Smash Bros?

FlamingUmbreon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
3
Just a thought. Then you have constant arrays of super human things computers are able to do, and even Deep Blue (A chess playing computer) beat Garry Kasparov (The World Champion at the time) in their rematch.

My question is this: Would it be possible to create a computer that's so good at smash bros, that 20xx basically becomes a possibility, and that not even any of the strongest Gods can beat it? Sure, it's radically different to compare a chess playing computer to a smash playing computer, but would that even be possible?
 
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Delta Chae

The Observer
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
194
Location
Indiana
Just a thought, since people before computers probably thought such a thing existed. Then you have constant arrays of super human things computers are able to do, and even Deep Blue (A chess playing computer), beat Garry Kasparov (The World Champion at the time) in their rematch.

My question is this: Would it be possible to create a computer that's so good at smash bros, that 20xx basically becomes a possibility, and that not even any of the strongest Gods can beat it? Sure, it's radically different to compare a chess playing computer to a smash playing computer, but would that even be possible?
Very unlikely due to the way computers function. A computer cannot think or play dynamically like a human can, it can only think "I must do X because Y" or some variation thereof. It's very easy to catch onto patterns like this and punish them regardless of how frame perfect said computer may be.
 

Brash Candihoot

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
43
Location
New England
Very unlikely due to the way computers function. A computer cannot think or play dynamically like a human can, it can only think "I must do X because Y" or some variation thereof. It's very easy to catch onto patterns like this and punish them regardless of how frame perfect said computer may be.
I would have to disagree with this strongly.

In this day and age there are computers that would surely be able to beat any of the top players even with minimal AI.

Just because of human handicaps involving reaction time and input delay a computer would have a 20+ frame advantage on everything (even with the delay to process player movement and options). Just give them Marth and they would be hyper viable against any player using any character.

No intricate or complex computation would be that necessary really. Just abuse range, speed, and frame perfect reactions and inputs to stop any approach while also being able to pretty much wall out any escape or retreat. A human can only jump or move on a grounded surface and in almost every case they are stuck in some computer readable trajectory for at least 15 frame minimum.

A well programmed Fox AI would be disgusting and pretty much untouchable.
 
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CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
This is definitely possible. It would be very easy if the computer did not have human reaction time. If there was a buffer, creating a human reaction time, the program would be harder and more expensive but still very possible and much much better than the best player.

For people who would think this isn't possible, AI has made huge steps forward recently. Deep Blue is basically a joke now. Computers do not need brute force methods to win anymore.
 

Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
Just a thought. Then you have constant arrays of super human things computers are able to do, and even Deep Blue (A chess playing computer) beat Garry Kasparov (The World Champion at the time) in their rematch.

My question is this: Would it be possible to create a computer that's so good at smash bros, that 20xx basically becomes a possibility, and that not even any of the strongest Gods can beat it? Sure, it's radically different to compare a chess playing computer to a smash playing computer, but would that even be possible?
It already exists in a somewhat functional form despite being very unfinished. I'm quite sure that even in its current state the only way to beat this AI would be to abuse bugs which prevent it from functioning properly; fundamentally its strategy of "powershield/shine clank/move away from everything on reaction, and take guaranteed openings to reaction techchase perfectly until a guaranteed kill setup is available" is sound: SmashBot vs Level 9 CPU

Melee becomes degenerate once you reach a certain execution/reaction threshold, as do many games (maybe even all; I can't say I know enough about it to comment accurately); it's not designed for the players to have 1 frame reactions and perfect techskill. Even games without physical execution barriers still have mental execution barriers which AI are not necessarily restricted by and which can therefore theoretically be played by AI better than any human.

As you can see demonstrated in the video, the AI doesn't require any "mindgames" to speak of, as their strategy leaves no room to be outplayed.

Very unlikely due to the way computers function. A computer cannot think or play dynamically like a human can, it can only think "I must do X because Y" or some variation thereof. It's very easy to catch onto patterns like this and punish them regardless of how frame perfect said computer may be.
To summarise/reiterate what I said above: if the flowchart doesn't provide any room for counterplay then it doesn't matter how predictable it is. You can predict the particular way in which the AI will unpunishably react to whatever you do while never taking risks or otherwise presenting openings, but that information is useless.

In all solvable games, the intuitive/heuristic strategies that humans and imperfect AIs use are a way to compensate for their limitations. Those strategies do not hold any inherent advantage over totally objectively determined "flowchart" strategies. The only times the former are ever better are when the latter are not implemented well enough (due to technical limitations). All solvable games are fundamentally the same in the sense that there is an optimal strategy, and it doesn't matter if you understand the reasoning behind it or not since you can implement it just as effectively regardless. You're not going to claim that you can beat a computer at tic-tac-toe because you possess a sapient understanding of it which the computer doesn't; Melee is the same, just with more possible moves.
 
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iAmMatt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
452
Location
Southern RI
NNID
mattgw420
I don't think so. Melee is such a free-flowing game that it would be near impossible to make a computer to make all those inputs and be able to adapt to players. TAS is the closest we're gonna get to this.
 
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