Worst matchup in the game

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

"Learn the matchup." This phrase has been spouted when giving advice about a simple FG battle, or even tournament. However, some matchups are crazy difficult or even impossible to master. So I'm trying to settle the debate for worst mathcup in the game. Which matchup do you guys think is crazy lopsided?

(Underdog goes first)
In My Opinion:
vs
vs
vs
vs
vs

 

[Egghead]

vs
vs
Height issues.

 

[Nah]

Ness vs Rosa has supposedly become less bad over time. Still in Rosa's favor, but not the roll over and die MU it used to be.

But anyway, vs ,, and platforms is terrible for Mac.

And I don't remember if it was only pre-patch or if it's still that bad, but vs was supposed to be borderline unwinnable for Ganon.

 

[Axel311]

v
v
v
v
v

The 5 worst I can think of ATM.

 

[Deleted member]

v
v
v
v
v

The 5 worst I can think of ATM.

Many Mac and Sheik players believe the MU to be slightly in Sheik's favor or even, I don't know what that's doing there.

 

[Axel311]

Many Mac and Sheik players believe the MU to be slightly in Sheik's favor or even, I don't know what that's doing there.

how? sheik drags him off stage with fair chains and he dies, needles I'm pretty sure eat KO punch. It has always looked terrible for mac to me. Could be wrong, but just my experiences.

 

[TDK]

vs Smashville
vs Battlefield
vs Dream Land

 

[Zerp]

vs Patch Notes

 

[Deleted member]

v. To the max.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Vs. Any character other than Ganondorf.
Vs. Gravity.

v

Why do you say that? I'd venture that Marth and Yoshi are worse for Jigglypuff than Cloud is.

vs Patch Notes

I hate that matchup. It's virtually unwinnable.

 

[Nah]

how? sheik drags him off stage with fair chains and he dies, needles I'm pretty sure eat KO punch. It has always looked terrible for mac to me. Could be wrong, but just my experiences.

She has to get that first Fair first. Mac's grounded buttons are stupid enough to not make it THAT easy for her.

Not that it matters much when Mac loses to platforms

 

[Guido65]

vs
vs
vs
vs (this one doesn't seem obvious at first but I can explain why this mu is garbage if anyone would want to know).
vs
vs and(not undoable but still really difficult).
vs

These are the awful mus from the top of my head.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

vs
vs
vs
vs (this one doesn't seem obvious at first but I can explain why this mu is garbage if anyone would want to know).
vs
vs and(not undoable but still really difficult).
vs

These are the awful mus from the top of my head.

I'm kinda confused by wario v cloud. Isn't wario mid-tier?

 

[Guido65]

I'm kinda confused by wario v cloud. Isn't wario mid-tier?

Afaik a lot of people say cloud is warios worst mu.

 

[Axel311]

Afaik a lot of people say cloud is warios worst mu.

As a wario main of 2 years, IMO Cloud is bad for wario but not worst MU in the game bad. Wario still has good tools to edgeguard cloud, and has waft of course. Probably -2 MU. Also wario uptilt beats Cloud dair.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

ROB vs ZSS isn't thst bad

 

[MasterZaden]

Vs. Any character other than Ganondorf.

As a person who plays a lot of Ganondorf, this is unfortunately true.

 

[KirbCider]

Vs / / / etc
As a King Dedede Main Projectile users are the bane of my existence, especially when it comes to For Glory Standards. Not only is King Dedede a huge, hittable target they can easily shut down his own projectile (Gordo) with their own so easily rendering it just about useless. Since they also don't necessarily have to approach due to their projectile game it makes his Bait and Punish harder to do as well. He doesn't have too much going for him as one wrong move/read could have deadly results to begin with.

Vs /
I have quite a few friends who play Ganondorf, and given the fact he can be combo fodder he's also pretty doomed once Bayonetta gets him off stage. A good Edge Guard read could result in Witch Twists or whatever else you can think of, and one thing I love to do is Witch Timing Ganondorfs Up B (timing it so where the little slap at the end activates it). Afterwards he's at your mercy off stage during that. Little Mac is pretty much the same story. Bayonetta can Edge Guard him to death and he can't do much about it.

Vs
Small, tiny, and quick does not make a fun time for King Dedede. Complete combo fodder for Pikachu and due to how small he is he can be pretty difficult to hit. Luckily I hardly ever find Pikachus, but when I do I know I'm straight up dead. RIP all hopes.

Vs
When I used to play Pac-Man (not like I was a very good one anyways) Rosalina always meant destruction for him. Her Gravitational Pull could shut down his projectile options as well as trap options. Plus Luma likes to be a meat bag too.

Vs ?
Okay, maybe not the worst but one thing to take note of is Villager can easily take away one of ROBs greatest tools (his Gyro) and keep it from him for just about the entire game and even use it against him, giving Villager an extra projectile option. Plus ROBs size can make it slightly harder to avoid his Slingshot, and you better be careful when you think about reflecting Villagers stuff back at him unless you want him to pocket those, too. It's not terrible but it's really annoying in my experience more or less.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I'm not entirely sure on this but I know one thing
zard vs. sonic is painful.
A decent sonic player can cancel out his spin dash into shield and once zard is knocked into the air sonic can easily dash, wait and juggle or shield rock smash/flamethrower, grab and combo. Zard may have good running speed but sonic has better aerial mobility and traction meaning that zard has to hard read most of sonic's options to do damage not to mention being combo food the spin dash into spring jump into uair is true at all percents.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

ROB vs ZSS isn't thst bad

I beg to differ. has crazy combos with her down throw, sort of like or , but they are more easy-bake. doesn't really have any options against this, with his dair super laggy, and his big hitbox adding many issues.

 

[Penguineeez]

v perhaps, hard for duck hunt to hit.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I beg to differ. has crazy combos with her down throw, sort of like or , but they are more easy-bake. doesn't really have any options against this, with his dair super laggy, and his big hitbox adding many issues.

It's bad, but it's doable. Nair covers all around us, wavebounced gyro charge and charge cancels works well, and other various situational options can help us.

The neutral is all about space coverage, so ZSS can't skate all across the stage. ROB covers the space above him really well with Utilt, Usmash, and Uair, covers it decently in front with his various moves and his average running speed, and all around him with Nair. We just don't want to be above ZSS, so we'll need to stay a lil more grounded.

I'd say it's a 35-65 MU, it's pretty hard, but winning it isn't too unlikely.

 

[SJMistery]

Greninja vs 1.0.4
Greninja vs Battlefield
Greninja vs Ryu. Greninja dies from envy 100% of the time after seeing Ryu lag cancel.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Greninja vs 1.0.4
Greninja vs Battlefield
Greninja vs Ryu. Greninja dies from envy 100% of the time after seeing Ryu lag cancel.

I thought Greninja had a fun time on battlefield, because his up air has range and his upsmash can poke through platforms.

 

[SJMistery]

Greninja hates Battlefield because he is in constant danger of becoming combo bait due to being a fast faller, His water Shurikens become much easier to dodge and his footstool combos can be easily interrupted by the floating platforms. And his aerial combos do not need the extra height of the platforms because of his ridiculous jump height.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

vs. most likely. Not only can she and Luma combo him every which way, that Luma hits almost about as hard as he does (based on the knockback values on Luma's attacks). Now, especially when she has rage. From the looks of it, she does a damn good job keeping Ganon out and edge-guarding him, too. That's just my thoughts...

 

[Dilan Omer]

vs anyone

Puff is so ass in Smash 4

 

[DunnoBro]

Pretty sure it's Pac v Mac

Hydrant = pseudo-platform
Trampoline = Demands mac go into the air

And just being pushed off by the water is a huge issue for mac.

Every other case of low v top tier is pretty much just one char having better tools than the other. But this MU is more dynamic than that. Mac has to voluntarily enter disadvantage state to even approach.

 

[Aaron1997]

v
v
v
v
v

HM
v
v
v
v

 

[Deleted member]

vs.
A matchup that is borderline unwinnable for Luigi.
Mega Man can easily edge guard Luigi without going off-stage, especially when Luigi's recovery is predictable and linear. Lemons and other projectiles limit Luigi's approach heavily.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

v
v
v
v
v

The 5 worst I can think of ATM.

Shiek and Mac are 50/50. Both character's punish game are amazing. The better player wins the match up. Mac can get out all of Shiek's aerials with neutral B or up B. Plus Mac can kill Shiek at around 70ish with down tilt up b, sooner with rage. If Shiek is playing campy with needles, we can just walk and play defensive.

 

[Eevee 8]

When we talk Matchups well i belive them to a great extent but honestly i think even the most disadvantageous JigglyPuff can beat the advantageous Cloud Strife

 

[SJMistery]

When we talk Matchups well i belive them to a great extent but honestly i think even the most disadvantageous JigglyPuff can beat the advantageous Cloud Strife

It has no absolutely chance against Patch Notes however.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Miis vs Rulesets.

 

[SJMistery]

Lvl 9 CPUs vs controller that run out of battery.

 

[DaidenEvolvedXZ]

"Learn the matchup." This phrase has been spouted when giving advice about a simple FG battle, or even tournament. However, some matchups are crazy difficult or even impossible to master. So I'm trying to settle the debate for worst mathcup in the game. Which matchup do you guys think is crazy lopsided?

(Underdog goes first)
In My Opinion:
vs
vs
vs
vs
vs

I know this thread is old, but I feel like another one of the worst matchups in smash 4 is Cloud vs. Little Mac