Why was sheik nerfed from melee?

[Lil Puddin]

Too many words; never will read.

 

[Arcalyth]

Her recovery is fine between being able to wall cling, cling jump, wall jump, invincible ledge stall, and transform.....

If you don't get sent offstage you don't have to recover

 

[MattCon5]

Sheik needs some kind of change in the next PM update. I think it should be her brawl tether, because that's a simple addition that would make her a solid PM character. Whereas now she's basically under par solely because of her recovery. It's either that or overhaul her move set, which the PMBR won't do because it's already being done in Smash 4.

 

[Scaremonger]

This ****ing thread

 

[Roxas215]

Sheik needs some kind of change in the next PM update. I think it should be her brawl tether, because that's a simple addition that would make her a solid PM character. Whereas now she's basically under par solely because of her recovery. It's either that or overhaul her move set, which the PMBR won't do because it's already being done in Smash 4.

She needs more then her tether. She needs her DACUS back as well.

PMBR logic. Take away her dacus and tether because "it's not melee" Yet nerf her dthrow because "Melee" Smh.

 

[Jinjo64]

Do you people not know how to read?

Somebody ****ing kill me please.

Don't bust a nut man. Also Sheik OP. nerf

 

[Kati]

..... dudes.

It's technically not possible for her to have a dacus.

Get over it. 3 frame jumpsquats prevent dacussing hence why Samus and Fox also don't while Falco and Ganon do.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik should obvious get melee backthrow

and a tether

having needles beat absolutely everything again would be nice

and an upthrow CG on fastfallers

also the rest of the cast should be nerfed too

where's @Strong Bad

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

id be fine with sheik if we got that across the board recovery nerf we've been hearing whispers about.
after all, ****ty recoveries in melee is what made sheik so good.
seriously make everyone's recovery as good/bad as falco's

 

[Arcalyth]

melee needles

 

[-Se7en-]

Truthfully Sheik is fine, she just falls slightly faster and her Dthrow isn't broken to hell.

She has many new options too, wall cling for recovery and an easier degree of control.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Lol, Mewtwo isn't a character you're really supposed to edgeguard. Nobody can gimp mewtwo, that's something that people need to start accepting. You're supposed to kill him off the top, which sheik is totally equipped to do. /quote]
You can edgeguard Mewtwo. Force him to go onstage then punish. Or you know, don't sit onstage, go offstage and needle/fair/nair/whatever. I mean Sheik is probably still the best edgeguarder in PM. She has tools to edgeguard virtually anyone, its just that most players take no risk.

That being said, Mewtwo is very susceptible to vertical kill moves. Glad you were smart and noticed this.

 

[Scaremonger]

Truthfully Sheik is fine, she just falls slightly faster and her Dthrow isn't broken to hell.

In case you're interested, I've tested falling speeds in PM and Melee in the debug console (or using frame advance in dolphin for PM), and Sheik still falls at the same rate. The only characters with altered falling speeds are DK, Ganon, ICs, Bowser, Marth, Mewtwo, Peach, and Puff, and it's off by an insignificant amount (pretty much the difference between Falcon and Falco in Melee at the most). Ganon and ICs fall slightly faster (Ganon now has the same gravity as Falcon), and the rest fall a bit slower. DK actually had a very large shift, but his shorthop is shorter or something because his shffl speed is still roughly the same and he feels like a fastfaller still.

Here's a chart I made with falling speeds over weight:

Spoiler

You can edgeguard Mewtwo. Force him to go onstage then punish. Or you know, don't sit onstage, go offstage and needle/fair/nair/whatever. I mean Sheik is probably still the best edgeguarder in PM. She has tools to edgeguard virtually anyone, its just that most players take no risk.

That being said, Mewtwo is very susceptible to vertical kill moves. Glad you were smart and noticed this.

Thanks. I was not aware that Sheik could effectively edgeguard Mewtwo, I was just going off of a general character basis. Most characters aren't very well equipped to edgeguard mewtwo and are better off going for a star KO (which I'm sure you're aware of, lol).

 

[Shokio]

Sheik is fine. 3.5 is coming with roster-wide recovery nerfs, so her's will get better by proxy.

For those saying she can't edge guard......I play Roy and ZSS and she can edge-guard both of those characters pretty freely. Like, without even trying.

Her down throw was nerfed (rightfully so) and given to other characters in the roster, yes, but that doesn't mean her's needs to be restored. The PMDT needs to nerf everyone else's. One of the biggest problems plaguing the game right now is that people can DThrow > Guranteed Kill at 160%. They don't need to give this ability to any more characters, they need to strip this out of the game completely.

 

[-Se7en-]

That may have just been my opinion, I apologize.

 

[9bit]

Only change I want for Sheik is separation from Zelda and to be given her new Smash4 down-B. That thing is sexy and looks like it would work well in a Melee/PM environment.

 

[ThreeSided]

Only change I want for Sheik is separation from Zelda and to be given her new Smash4 down-B. That thing is sexy and looks like it would work well in a Melee/PM environment.

Won't happen for copyright reasons. PM doesn't want to get into legal trouble.

As for Sheik as a whole, I don't know what you guys are talking about. The metagame change is what has affected her the most, and because of it you have to play her differently (read:smarter), but as a whole she's still an awesome character. I don't think she needs any buffs.

That being said, with all the nerfed recoveries in 3.5, she's indirectly getting a major one.

 

[Deleted member]

i would still love to see her as her own character. i hate accidentally transforming into zelda. we split the pokemon trainer characters, we split ZSS from samus, we allow popo to be played solo, we even split zelda from sheik on the character select menu, this change is long past due imo.

 

[Missile]

After playing Sheik in PM for a while now competitively I can say I agree with Shokio.

Throw confirmed kills need to be weeded out from the game completely, e.g. Lucas, Toon Link, Ness and Pit, to name a few. I would say even kill throws need to be reworked to a more fair version. Some kill throws are just ridiculous on some characters, like Lucas.

At first I didn't really like her throw game, but I didn't hate it. It just felt uncomfortable. Now I see the fairness in it and how useful it is to DI trap people who can't or don't react to the throws. Mixing up throws is great.

The only thing I would like to see changed about Sheik in her current state is her side and down specials, because I find myself NEVER using them at all, or using them by mistake and getting screwed over for it.

I've said it before and I still think it's a good idea, but a special needle with a different status effect as a side B would be a good idea as an alternative for the ABSOLUTELY USELESS chain.

A useful down-b would be good, as well.