Why there's a good chance you'll see an Ike in the top 5 at most tournys

[Trizzy]

This is a collection of my observations and opinions of Ike to hopefully spark a different way of looking at his meta-game. Also, I would like to remind flamers that post count = post quality and the following should be scoffed at accordingly:

I was looking forward to hating Ike when this game came out. I hated him before the game even came out just from watching his videos. Then I played him and I hated him even more because even though he didn't fit my playstyle, I was doing well with him. That's because Ike is this games best punisher of mistakes, hands down. The tradeoff is that he is also the most easily punished. It's worth the tradeoff though, because one of Ike's passive influences is demoralization.

I regularly fight a d*mn good Pit and a very decent Wolf. They will tear me to shreds and get me to 90% before I can get them to 20%. Until I capitilize on just one mistake and run with it to even out the damage between us right before I get a KO. They're thinking, '****... I just did all that work and after one mistake he caught up so easily'. I know I do when I fight Ike. This usually causes them to make more mistakes to try to compensate, furthering Ike's advanatge. It just takes so very little for Ike to even the playing field when he's losing because of the high damage he must take before being KO'ed and because of the low damage he needs to inflict to score a KO.

I've seen a few posts talking about how he won't be a viable competitor in high level play. I couldn't disagree more. What seperates the top 3 from the bottom 3 in a tourny isn't technical play, it's foresight and reaction speed. The player that better predicts the next move and reacts accordingly will more often win. These two qualities more directly match the playstyle necessary to play well with Ike than any character that I can think of at the moment. Trick your opponent. Lead him into a sense of security. Wait and be patiently aggressive. Strike. Because everyone slips up sometime, and Ike's sword is big enough to be there when they do.

 

[Timat the Slayer]

I agree with you. While Ike is the most 'punishable' character, people really have to be going in there sword a blazin with Ike, and that's just a bad mentality with him. He's not meant for throwing sh*t out there and praying it works, he's more of a "I know you're going to do this, so I'll just crush you when you try it" sort of character, and he can really even the odds (or increase them even more) if the other person messes up.

I like this thread, not many good ones in the Ike forums.

 

[SwordsmanChris]

Ike can easily launch people with one attack; it's really insane. While the speedier characters need to get all those hits in, Ike really just needs one or two blows to finish off a lighter contender. I played as him at the Gamestop Tournament (which was a bit newbish, I know). At first I got slapped around a lot, but all you need is one attack and you can KO enemies, and soon I was finishing everyone off with only a few strikes. It's all about the timing and spacing, which is easy enough to control if you time his moves right.

I can see Ike going either into obscurity or into a high position; it's too early to tell. There's a stigma about slow characters which is going to hurt him in the tier list, though, which could deter competitive players from using him. That's just my personal thought about the matter, though.

 

[BigRick]

Because Azen and Ken play Ike.

 

[ama(m/t)]

sounds to me like your friends suck more than anything else

 

[Trizzy]

They do well with him because they excel at forcing and predicting mistakes and openings.
Their Ikes are probably frustratingly difficult to take down for anyone. I think moreso than if they chose another character.

Picking Ike is almost like gambling. It's like saying "I bet that I can get you to slip up enough times to pull off a win." The only thing a strong Ike player has to fear is a fast character that makes fewer mistakes and leaves fewer openeings than are necessary for Ike to win. Face it: Ike's attacks rely on openeings and player weakness more than any other character.

Azen and Ken are likely to be in the top 5 at any tourny they go to no matter their character choice. Ike suits them best because he plays to the things that make them great at Smash.

sounds to me like your friends suck more than anything else

I recognize you; you're the guy I've seen making useless posts frequently. Thanks for stopping by. I can tell your detective skills are without equal, and that the points you make are valid and well thought out with strong supporting evidence and examples. People like you.

 

[Timat the Slayer]

I recognize you; you're the guy I've seen making useless posts frequently. Thanks for stopping by. I can tell your detective skills are without equal, and that the points you make are valid and well thought out with strong supporting evidence and examples. People like you.

I love your sarcasm. It wins.

Cause you know, I need to point this out just in case people can't tell. Yeah. You know who you are.

 

[ama(m/t)]

anyone who posts "facts" based on the skill of their friends needs to take their play to the next level
i'm sure by anyone else's standards, a "d*mn good Pit" and a "very decent" Wolf don't mean anything on the competitive level on which you are trying to post about

so before you say ike counters people because you managed to combo a friend of yours who can't figure out the right time to attack, consider the game at large instead of just you and your friends

your posts are as valid as someone asserting their skill by writing that they are good at smash bros because they are the best in their circle of "highly skilled" friends

 

[Trizzy]

anyone who posts "facts" based on the skill of their friends needs to take their play to the next level
i'm sure by anyone else's standards, a "d*mn good Pit" and a "very decent" Wolf don't mean anything on the competitive level on which you are trying to post about

so before you say ike counters people because you managed to combo a friend of yours who can't figure out the right time to attack, consider the game at large instead of just you and your friends

your posts are as valid as someone asserting their skill by writing that they are good at smash bros because they are the best in their circle of "highly skilled" friends

http://www.youtube.com/user/Na7han

Check out how Chillin ***** Azens Ike in parts of the matches, just for Azen to quickly gain the upper hand in the same exact way I've just described. The best part is how much work CHillin's ZSS has to do to acheive the same thing that Azen's Ike accomplishes in efficient bursts.

The irony of your post is that you're the only one considering the skill of me and my friends, and disregarding the game at-large. Irony is cute.

I didn't make this post to assert my skill in anything, especially Ike. Nor was it to compare my friends to pros. My skill in the game while versing my friends is exactly relative to Azen's (or any pro's) skill against other pros, thus making my points very relevant, just on a different scale. I win some, I lose some, I learn some. Ikes playstyle is worth discussing by any level of player. This post was to discuss his meta-game in a way that I haven't seen yet in these forums. Until you said those... hurtful things. Way to ruin Christmas, Timmy.

This is a collection of my observations and opinions of Ike to hopefully spark a different way of looking at his meta-game.

Someone posted facts? Where? You are obviously a better detective than I had originally given you credit for, which is a lot. To see the invisible must be very helpful.

Posts like yours are the reason I've been trolling these forums for 4 years and only finally created an account because I needed to to sign up for a d*mned tourny... Now that we've gotten that straightened out, would you like to possibly cut your losses and either contribute or not post again?

I'll happily admit if I'm wrong, if you could do the same I would be very impressed. Moreso than if I heard you won enough tournaments to make your opinion matter by your own logic.

 

[ama(m/t)]

your first post is about you saying that ike is good because he can make comebacks when players get careless
your "reasoning" is that you can beat your friends
i never said you were trying to say you were good. i said this is where your argument fails because your logic is on par with those who use that kind of reasoning
case closed

btw you can't post without an account
you can't troll without an account

 

[Trizzy]

I'm not allowed to use the friends I play with as direct examples to back up an opinion based on multiple observations including professional Smash videos while you can make unfounded claims with no proof whatsoever? You, good sir, are a master debater. Almost as good a debater as you are a detective.

And I have been misusing the term trolling for quiet some time it seems. Thank you for correcting me.

I look forward to hearing about your success. Good day.

Anyone else care to get back on topic with an opinion on Ike and not an opinion on the person talking about him?

 

[Fizz-sama]

I really can't contribute to this thread like I wish I could, but nonetheless I agree whole heartedly with Trizzy. My friend and I were playing a ton of matches before he had to work today and they were pretty interesting. He played a variety of characters and I played Ike.

The match-up I feel worthy of bringing up is Ike vs. Ganon. Ganon is similar to Ike, in being that he can punish greatly, but he also has more leeway(sp?) to be more agressive than Ike as well. There were matches when I was just get my *** handed to me, but it really started coming when I waited off and found an opportune moment, due to him making a mistake or the mind game that worked for that particular situation. Of course, he punished my *** as well, but that's besides the point. What's a good match when you don't mindgame the mess out of your friend anyway?

Either way, love this thread.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I don't see Ike being top 5 in big tournaments in the future. He's going to be like Ganon.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Ike the ultimate char for lazy smashers.

also try playing against a wolf that laser spams, dodges and laser spams some more, then when you are at high percent he does a down throw, you fly at a low trajectory and you die.

most annoying match i've had yet.

 

[Trizzy]

I don't see Ike being top 5 in big tournaments in the future. He's going to be like Ganon.

If this were Melee I'd agree with you, but things have slowed down a lot. And Ike has one huge advantage that Ganon never had: Range. He has Ganon's KO power with Marth's range. Longer than Marth's range by a few pixels, actually.

 

[MeloDeath]

If this were Melee I'd agree with you, but things have slowed down a lot. And Ike has one huge advantage that Ganon never had: Range. He has Ganon's KO power with Marth's range. Longer than Marth's range by a few pixels, actually.

I agree with almost everything you said in this thread, and i support my trooper in the flame war XD (pun intended), but your comparison is not correct. The reason that ganon had a 50/50 metagame against marth in melee was in fact becasue ganon had MORE range on most attacks and aerials in particular. For instance, the Bair had a larger range than marths Nair. I'd say that ike is very similar to ganon in most ways. Slow-built char with a fast and punishing Side-B, 1 or 2 fast aerials. I'd even go as far as saying ganon is faster than ike, but has less KO power

 

[rubiksfriend]

Ganondorf doesn't seem to have any moderately fast attacks tough, while Ike does.

 

[rofl_jack]

I see Ike being in the top 5 at tournies, for one reason.

Just about every other person plays with Ike.
A few minutes ago I fought a match as Olimar against 3 Ikes.


Seriously folks.

 

[Trizzy]

Well, Ike is a monster in FFA's. I have to force myself to not pick him in a FFA because I think it just makes me worst at playing him. I can spam up and forward smash the entire time and still get the most KOs in the match. It's so easy... so that's why there's a lot of Ike's online I think.

He's just as deadly 1v1, it just takes a lot more skill to actually win.

I agree with almost everything you said in this thread, and i support my trooper in the flame war XD (pun intended), but your comparison is not correct. The reason that ganon had a 50/50 metagame against marth in melee was in fact becasue ganon had MORE range on most attacks and aerials in particular. For instance, the Bair had a larger range than marths Nair. I'd say that ike is very similar to ganon in most ways. Slow-built char with a fast and punishing Side-B, 1 or 2 fast aerials. I'd even go as far as saying ganon is faster than ike, but has less KO power

A few of Ganon's moves had range and a lot of them were reliable KO moves. ALL of Ike's attack have great range and I've seen ALL of his moves KO at reasonable percentages. Another huge advantage the Ike and Marth have over Ganon is the fact that their range attacks are through disjointed hitboxes (their swords) and are therefore much much harder to punish and counter and generally have more priority. Ike's moves also have hitboxes in places opponents might not expect. His fair can hit people directly under him. He just has so much more going for him than Ganon ever did, and Ganon was still high tier in Melee. Give ganon a sword and increase the power and range of all of his moves, you've got a top 5 tourny character.