Why is there a stigma against casual Smash play?

[aethermaster]

tl;dr: sometimes i have fun playing casually with items on and i hate feeling like i'm being looked down upon because of it.

I'm not sure if this is the right place for it or not, and if there has already been threads about this, but I feel like I need to come out and ask about questions.

Its been a while since SF4 had Omega mode which basically gave characters ridiculous options and new ways to play and even though that it wasn't intended for competitive play, I saw that a lot of people in the competitive community generally had a blast with it and for some it was a breath of fresh air. So why is it when I dare mention that I sometimes enjoy playing with 4 player, items on, I get a look like I'm a demon spawn? Sometimes I just get so sick of the same bull from competitive 2/3 stock 8 minute timer battlefield/smashville routine that when I dare say I want to play Boxing Ring or Hyrule Castle I'm given a treatment that I'm somewhat lower than the competitive community?

Is our community really that elitist or narrow-minded that we cannot accept other methods of play, or am I just getting yelled at by a vocal minority? I love playing competitive smash, don't get me wrong I find it enjoyable a lot of the time, but I feel like if I was Zero or m2k playing this and Melee nonstop I would drive myself absolutely mental, especially considering how much I'm missing in this game in favor of trying to play it competitively. Maybe I just get bored easily too? But the point is, I wish there wasn't this stigma against playing with items or how you want that seemingly began when Melee banned items (yes some Melee tournaments in the beginning had items enabled--what a shock!).

I guess part of this post is somewhat self-reflectional because I've tried so hard to cater internally to the competitive community where I don't want to be seen as a "casual scrub" or something so I stopped having fun with the game. I guess sometimes I kind of wish I didn't find out about the competitive community, because before that I was happy playing as Link in Melee on Hyrule Temples with items on max. But it's almost like if even utter those words the scorn and disgust pops up from some members of the community because I'm not playing the game the way they wanted to.

 

[DoctorDub]

That's a vocal minority you're dealing with right there.
It's the same way that I see how the Melee community feel about Smash 4. A lot of them really don't give a damn and are happy for everyone to play their own game, but the ones that do decide to be pricks and elitists tend to stand out more. At first, it seems like I'm being belittled for playing Sm4sh more than Melee or PM, but when I take a step back and look at the bigger picture, those same people are kind of shunned in their respective community as it is. Toxic people will be toxic, and that's the way it is. Their pathetic whining or insults don't just come towards you.

Basically, remember this: Play the game how you want to. You bought the ****in' thing with your money. Do as you please.

 

[Raijinken]

It's because these forums are primarily focused on discussing competitive aspects of the game. That's all there is to it. Like DoctorDub said, if you prefer to just play and have fun, by all means, just play and have fun (it's a lot less stressful that way).

 

[lancepantss]

This guy's got the right idea

 

[Sean²]

...am I just getting yelled at by a vocal minority?

Yes.

Look up Zero's youtube channel. He and M2K have lots of videos up of them playing all sorts of fun matches. Crazy dittos on banned stages, etc.

Point is, play the game how you want, no one of good character is going to disrespect that.

 

[aethermaster]

It's because these forums are primarily focused on discussing competitive aspects of the game. That's all there is to it. Like DoctorDub said, if you prefer to just play and have fun, by all means, just play and have fun (it's a lot less stressful that way).

My complaint has nothing to do with how these boards are focused. I don't mind that we're a competitive based forum, but it seems like the mere thought of causal play repulses some people in the community so much because "its not the way to play smash". Its okay to say "I prefer the competitive style more" without completely slamming or shaming the casual side of side it too.

I mean its not like that's how the games were intended to be played

 

[Roukiske]

If you play any game in a casual setting there's always going to be that one dude in the crowd who's gonna say "lol filthy casul" because well... people suck :D. If you want to play the game with items and such you should obviously play with people who want to or don't mind those things.

Aside from tournaments (which focus on competitive play), I've only played smash with strangers at conventions. There's obviously setups where people are playing competitively, but there are other setups where people play with items and other rules. I can't recall anyone saying anything negative about it. Think of these setups as 2 different games and you should play on the setup that is playing the game you wanna play (Edit: I've played on both setups because I paid to have fun). Honestly, if anyone gives you flak for having fun in a reasonable way, they aren't worth your time.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

There's not from my end, or any of my friends. We do competitive 1v1, and we also do FFA for fun with items on, etc. We attend tournaments, and we play All Star mode. That's the beauty of Smash - SO many different ways to play.

 

[LancerStaff]

A lot of it comes from bitterness that Sakurai makes predominantly casual games and how Smash will continue on this direction forever.

Not that I'm complaining, but this is generally where it comes from in my experience.

 

[BrokenFiend]

I don't yell at anyone for it, but it bugs me when I am playing extremely well and focused, manage to take a stock without going above 30 %, and suddenly a Bob-omb flies at me and kills me. They just get in the way in my opinion.

So yeah I usually play with items off, though when my friends wanna use them I just smile and bear it. Though I totally understand why people love them and more power to ya.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I also feel offended sometimes, as a casually competitive player. How are the casual players playing the game in a wrong way if you can adjust the game to how do you want?! With items, no items, faster, slower, chaotic, heavy gravity... It's like the game is forbidden to play in a different way. Also, it's not the casuals' fault that the game got floatier and slower at Brawl. Sakurai and his team wanted it. They also wanted Melee, 64, and SSB4 to be like that. Melee is even a "beautiful accident". It wasn't intended to be a Competitive Game. But it is, and also a Casual game. Smash is not going in the "wrong direction". It's going the way it is, since the very first game, in 1999. Playing the game is enough! Don't liking some games is a big problem in the community. Instead of living so happy together, playing and discussing about the game we just keep complaining. Not everyone is like, though. It's quite a small portion of the Community, but still one of the biggest problems out there!

 

[BrokenFiend]

I mean, a casual community isn't really a thriving community when it comes to fighting games (or so I think). I believe Smash is so loved and does so well mainly due to the competitive side, which gets people fired up, makes viewing streams, guides, videos on it in general so exciting.

So yes, Sakurai and his team may want to have the games be more casual, but I think it's the competitive side of the community that pushes the game to it's limits and helps promote it more so than any casual scene.

 

[Deleted member]

I wish there wasn't this stigma against playing with items or how you want that seemingly began when Melee banned items (yes some Melee tournaments in the beginning had items enabled--what a shock!).

It's not because of Melee or Melee players that items are banned, they are banned because in this scenario where people are competing, they want a less random environment. If Smash WiiU3DS was on Gamecube instead of Melee, this same thing would have still occurred.

It's similar to how competitions generally work. They have set rules to ensure quality of the match where it be sports or etc. You can still play street ball instead of NBA rules, you can still use a soft ball instead of a baseball, and you can still play football without a certain amount of people and a huge arena.

As someone who likes Melee the most of the Smash games, I've always played with items. I may turn them off much more so by comparison, but I still play item matches plenty. If someone likes or dislikes them, I'll turn them off or on, but really everyone has their own opinion when it comes to what is the most entertaining for them. If someone plays nothing but Final Destination no items and never likes items on ever, there's nothing wrong with that at all, that's their opinion and I'll respect that. If someone only wants items on and never wants to go to Final Destination, I'll respect that too.

In a competitive environment, asking someone to turn on items is most likely going to lead to people not wanting to play it because some people tend to take it too seriously when they lose with items on or whatever reason else they may have. However, I've personally never have run into stigma for using items myself, I wouldn't turn them on in a actual tournament, but if people are wanting to play with items on I really don't mind it myself.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Actually, I swear, I saw one person say this regarding how Pyrosphere (Which is, mind you, almost non-competive yet a very fun stage) is affected by 8 player smash:
"This is the way it was MEANT to be played."

Ugh.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Don't try to fight it. I've learned the hard way not to let them get you worked up. This forum was created for competitive Melee, so there is going to be a strong interest in that game and that kind of play and that is something you just have to accept. Everyone else showed up because this is a really great website to discuss Smash Bros. in general.

However like everywhere else in the world, their are idiots that ruin something for everyone else. I went through a phase where I absolutely hated competitive Melee players. All because every new piece of Smash 4 information that was shown received backlash because it was different from Melee, and because they couldn't let people enjoy playing Brawl. I associated competitive Melee with whiny people who hate any kind of change. What took me too long to figure out is that it's not the whole community like this. There are plenty of Smash Bros. players on this site who love all 4 games for their flaws and their differences and there are some that prefer one in the series (usually Melee). But then you have the elitist Melee players who put their game up on a pedestal and hate Sakurai for some reason. They will never let you be happy unless you are a competitive Melee player.

So my advice to you is **** them. Smash Bros. is a party game series first, it's designed to be that way so there is absolutely no shame in playing it that way. If you want to play with items and on the MS Paint PACMAN level then go ahead and do it. You spent the money on the game, you get to play it how you like. You can still have an insanely intense game with items and on a crazy stage, and the unpredictable variables make it more fun and make you a much more adaptable player.

My ideal way of playing is random characters, all items, random stage. Sue me.

 

[Tino]

Someone speaking my language!
Everyone here pretty much sums it up. You play the game however the **** you want, whether it be items turned on or off, playing on hazardous stages, etc. It's your cash money. You bought the game yourself. You make the rules.
Besides, this is what Smash Bros. is meant to be; a fun and crazy party game where family and friends get together to have a hell of a great time. Only thing that sucks the fun away, of course, is people like those selfish Melee and/or Project M fanboys who take this way too seriously. The sad part about them is that they'll never learn ****.

 

[GhostUrsa]

A casual community is usually dependent the hardcore community to know if something is a big deal. @ BrokenFiend 's comment on the competitive side pushing the limits and promoting things is correct, but it is so that the casual scene takes notice and hopefully make some of the converts. Only driving interest among ourselves will eventually cause the scene to stagnate and die.

It's part of the reason that the 'filthy casual' mentality that some have in a competitive scene for any activity is unhealthy, as it tells those who are on the outside looking in that they are unwanted instead of encouraging them to watch or even participate. Think of how football in the US works, or soccer (football) for the rest of the world works. The diehards let others know what matches are the big deal and help explain enough so they can at least watch and have fun, some will even encourage them to play locals for fun. The players will often encourage others to play, or even teach other how by promoting it with their local communities and providing educational incentives. The fandom is constantly feeding into itself by design.

We'll get to this point, but it will just take all of us to remind the 'debby downers' that the game is welcome to all and last year's casuals can be next year's champions. We all had to start somewhere, and we all had to have had fun to want to continue.

 

[Khao]

Depending on where you go, the opposite is also true. (That is, casual players acting completely elitist towards people that prefer playing competitively, or even just doing stuff as simple wanting to turn off items.)

One of the best things about Smash is the vast amounts of options it offers for pretty much any playstyle you want. There is absolutely no way that Smash was "meant to be played," otherwise, all this options and adjustable rules wouldn't be in place. Some people like two minute time matches with all items on high, playing random characters on random stages. Others might like playing only on flat stages with no items. Others might like Stamina matches. Other may like to play 30-stock matches. Others may want to make up their own special rules, and make special stages to carry them out better. None of these ways to play the game is wrong.

There's sadly some people just don't see it that way, and can't accept that others don't share their own personal favorite modes and rules. But really, they have no say in how you personally like to play the game.

So yah, don't be ashamed to play the way game as you most enjoy it and don't be a **** to others. Even in this forum, there's a lot of casual players going around, and they get along perfectly well with the competitive ones. In a lot of cases, both playstyles overlap more than you might expect.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Don't try to fight it. I've learned the hard way not to let them get you worked up. This forum was created for competitive Melee, so there is going to be a strong interest in that game and that kind of play and that is something you just have to accept. Everyone else showed up because this is a really great website to discuss Smash Bros. in general.

However like everywhere else in the world, their are idiots that ruin something for everyone else. I went through a phase where I absolutely hated competitive Melee players. All because every new piece of Smash 4 information that was shown received backlash because it was different from Melee, and because they couldn't let people enjoy playing Brawl. I associated competitive Melee with whiny people who hate any kind of change. What took me too long to figure out is that it's not the whole community like this. There are plenty of Smash Bros. players on this site who love all 4 games for their flaws and their differences and there are some that prefer one in the series (usually Melee). But then you have the elitist Melee players who put their game up on a pedestal and hate Sakurai for some reason. They will never let you be happy unless you are a competitive Melee player.

So my advice to you is **** them. Smash Bros. is a party game series first, it's designed to be that way so there is absolutely no shame in playing it that way. If you want to play with items and on the MS Paint PACMAN level then go ahead and do it. You spent the money on the game, you get to play it how you like. You can still have an insanely intense game with items and on a crazy stage, and the unpredictable variables make it more fun and make you a much more adaptable player.

My ideal way of playing is random characters, all items, random stage. Sue me.

*Claps*

 

[ChikoLad]

It's just a case of a lot of users forgetting about the slogan in the site's very banner that's constantly staring them in the bloody face.

 

[GhostUrsa]

It's just a case of a lot of users forgetting about the slogan in the site's very banner that's constantly staring them in the bloody face.

Would that be the "Home of the Smash Community" part, or the red banner yelling at me for having ad block when I actually don't have it installed.

 

[BrokenFiend]

Would that be the "Home of the Smash Community" part, or the red banner yelling at me for having ad block when I actually don't have it installed.

Oh sure you don't ;P

 

[PolarPanda]

The people who complain about people who play for fun with items are the same people who complain about music tastes, game tastes; if they're being judgmental to you, then they're probably judgmental in other ways as well. Usually that'd make them hipsters, which aren't the majority.
So, don't worry, youre just dealing with a vocal minority.

 

[SmashBear]

There is a reason why this community is considered the Smash community.Its because there a always people who play the game in different ways and styles.
This is why i feel that people who criticize other players for being a casual is just being extremely judgmental because since you spended your money paying for the game it should be your choice on how you want play the game
And calling people casual just for playing the game in a different style like with items on or playing on tournament banned stages is inaccurate since you can see videos of competitive smash players like ZeRo and Mew2King play on banned stages and sometimes with items on.
Even though i love playing competitive smash if i have a group of friends sometimes i prefer to ignore the tournament rulings and use items and play on banned stages
So i say just ignore them as that term is extremely unhealthy to thw competitive community's rep and may drive new players away

 

[GhostUrsa]

Oh sure you don't ;P

Sadly, I don't. I thought it was a firefox thing, but at home on IE11 I see the same popup sometimes. It's been really perplexing, as I fear there may be a virus on my machine but I'm seeing it on my work computer and on my tablet on occasion too.

Edit: Seriously, has anyone else seen this? It really weirds me out!

 

[ChikoLad]

Sadly, I don't. I thought it was a firefox thing, but at home on IE11 I see the same popup sometimes. It's been really perplexing, as I fear there may be a virus on my machine but I'm seeing it on my work computer and on my tablet on occasion too.

Edit: Seriously, has anyone else seen this? It really weirds me out!

I have Adblock on my laptop, but I have it disabled for Smashboards, and the site still asks me to disable it sometimes, even though it already is.

I experience other site glitches though, so it isn't too surprising.

 

[LancerStaff]

Sadly, I don't. I thought it was a firefox thing, but at home on IE11 I see the same popup sometimes. It's been really perplexing, as I fear there may be a virus on my machine but I'm seeing it on my work computer and on my tablet on occasion too.

Edit: Seriously, has anyone else seen this? It really weirds me out!

Never turned ad block on ever on this machine and 99% of the ads never load properly for me. It's likely whatever you're using can't load 'em for one reason or another.

 

[Bhero]

Point blank, you paid for the game with your hard earned money, you have the privilege to play as you want. The smash community is a passionate, albeit outspoken, group of individuals. So be prepared to have your views challenged from time to time, but remember, opinions are like buttholes, everyones got one and they all stink. Unless those players bought you the game and wii u, realistically they can shove their opinions on how you play. No shots fired btw.