Why is Little Mac F tier?

[A3DAN]

I was just taking a look at the Smash 4 tier list on SmashBoards and I find that Little Mac is still very low on the tier list. I understand that his off stage game is very weak, and same with his air game in general. However, when it comes to standing your ground, comboing, and keeping your distance Little Mac is amazing. So, why is Little Mac so low tier? I would love to hear what you guys think.

 

[Champ Gold]

You said it.

The recovery is so bad that he can die at 33% just off of decent ledge guarding.

That and he has some horrible matchups with various characters which some are expected like and even

But he has some bad matchup with low tiers like and

Having a Top 5 ground game won't save you as much if you don't have a defensive aerial option and can't deal with grab set ups and projectile spacing.

 

[A3DAN]

You said it.

The recovery is so bad that he can die at 33% just off of decent ledge guarding.

That and he has some horrible matchups with various characters which some are expected like and even

But he has some bad matchup with low tiers like and

Having a Top 5 ground game won't save you as much if you don't have a defensive aerial option and can't deal with grab set ups and projectile spacing.

Yeah, makes sense. I can see how his bads out weigh the goods. Everything aside, hes still fun as heck lol

 

[Frihetsanka]

He's pretty easy to camp and time out. For friendlies this doesn't matter that much, since most players are not going to camp too hard when nothing is on the line, but for tournaments people might (and then again, many don't). The removal of Duck Hunt was good for him though, since that's one less stage he has to worry about (his opponents camping in the tree is really bad for him).

His better at For Glory, where he always gets his best stage (I assume, I'm no Little Mac expert but surely Final Destination/Omega is his best stage?) and people generally aren't great at gimping on For Glory.

 

[A3DAN]

He's pretty easy to camp and time out. For friendlies this doesn't matter that much, since most players are not going to camp too hard when nothing is on the line, but for tournaments people might (and then again, many don't). The removal of Duck Hunt was good for him though, since that's one less stage he has to worry about (his opponents camping in the tree is really bad for him).

His better at For Glory, where he always gets his best stage (I assume, I'm no Little Mac expert but surely Final Destination/Omega is his best stage?) and people generally aren't great at gimping on For Glory.

Its true that Mac does well on FD, but in my experience Lylat Cruise works the best. You can camp under the platforms and easily punish. Also his up smash goes through the platforms

 

[Frihetsanka]

Its true that Mac does well on FD, but in my experience Lylat Cruise works the best. You can camp under the platforms and easily punish. Also his up smash goes through the platforms

I'd imagine Lylat Cruise, FD/Omegas, and Town & City are his best stages. Smashville is bad because of the platform, and Battlefield and Dream Land are bad because it's easy to camp him on the top platform. Again though, I'm no Little Mac main, so if they say otherwise they might be right.

 

[A3DAN]

I'd imagine Lylat Cruise, FD/Omegas, and Town & City are his best stages. Smashville is bad because of the platform, and Battlefield and Dream Land are bad because it's easy to camp him on the top platform. Again though, I'm no Little Mac main, so if they say otherwise they might be right.

Yeah, you're completely right about Battlefield and Dream Land. In my experience Smashville hasn't been too bad, but I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Mini_Mac]

As a Mac main who has played Mac for 90% of my FG battles, here are the top 10 reasons:

10. He has almost no approach options. The only stradegy he has is playing extremely patiently and innitiating a sneak attack by using his dash speed followed by a dash attack or a grab.
9. He has one of the worst counters in the game. It only kills if you're opponent is over 100% on average and you essentailly leave yourself as an open target if you miss it since the end lag on it is so high.
8. His moveset is very minimal compared to the rest of the cast partly due to his extremely punishable N-special.
7. His combo options are very minimal. His only true combos happen on very heavy characters like Bowser and Ganon or anyone who doesn't have good DI.
6. He has no ledge guard options unless you are a master at landing the 2-frame punish with his D-smash or you're super good at reading your opponent's get-up.
5. His jump is so small and it can be punishable by a majority of the cast.
4. His aerials have very high start-up lag (other than his Nair), their range is piss poor, they have relatively big end lag (other than his Nair), the knock back on all of them are extremely low, and the amount of damage you actually rack up is worthless.
3. He has exploitable end lag on all of his smash attacks and his predictable playstyle (since he needs to stay grounded in order to play effectively) makes him very avoidable to his opponent.
2. He has no ledge sweet spot making it super easy to GIMP Mac as if his recovery wasn't a hassle already.
1. Speaking of recovery.... his recovery. He only has two options (up-special and side-special) both of which have EXTREMELY short distance and combined with his incredible small jump height makes it that much worse.

So yeah. That is why Mac is F tier. The reason he isn't even lower on the list (in places like G tier) is because of his ability to clutch out a match with KO punch and he does have some more than average attributes that are quite good such as his frame-1 infinite jabs which no other character has (ZSS has a frame-1 but not infinite) and his extremely fast dash attack, tilts (Ftilt is a potent kill move), and dodge speed. He also has massive amounts of super armor (all smash attacks + neutral-B), and finally his smash attacks deliver immense blows both in damage and knock back along with his down angled Fsmash which doesnt deal a lot of knock back but can break shields.

 

[Bleezyy]

As a Mac main who has played Mac for 90% of my FG battles, here are the top 10 reasons:

10. He has almost no approach options. The only stradegy he has is playing extremely patiently and innitiating a sneak attack by using his dash speed followed by a dash attack or a grab.
9. He has one of the worst counters in the game. It only kills if you're opponent is over 100% on average and you essentailly leave yourself as an open target if you miss it since the end lag on it is so high.
8. His moveset is very minimal compared to the rest of the cast partly due to his extremely punishable N-special.
7. His combo options are very minimal. His only true combos happen on very heavy characters like Bowswer and Ganon or anyone who doesn't have good DI.
6. He has no ledge guard options unless you are a master at landing the 2-frame punish with his D-smash or you're super good at reading your opponent's get-up.
5. His jump is so small and it can be punishable by a majority of the cast.
4. His aerials have very high start-up lag (other than his Nair), their range is piss poor, they have relatively big end lag (other than his Nair), the knock back on all of them are extremely low, and the amount of damage you actually rack up is worthless.
3. He has exploitable end lag on all of his smash attacks and his predictable playstyle (since he needs to stay grounded in order to play effectively) makes him very avoidable to his opponent.
2. He has no ledge sweet spot making it super easy to GIMP Mac as if his recovery wasn't a hassle already.
1. Speaking of recovery.... his recovery. He only has two options (up-special and side-special) both of which have EXTREMELY short distance and combined with his incredible small jump height makes it that much worse.

So yeah. That is why Mac is F tier. The reason he isn't even lower on the list (in places like G tier) is because of his ability to clutch out a match with KO punch and he does have some more than average attributes that are quite good such as his frame-1 infinite jabs which no other character has (ZSS has a frame-1 but not infinite) and his extremely fast dash attack, tilts (Ftilt is a potent kill move), and dodge speed. He also has massive amounts of super armor (all smash attacks + neutral-B), and finally his smash attacks deliver immense blows both in damage and knock back along with his down angled Fsmash which doesnt deal a lot of knock back but can break shields.

Ok after all that you need to say some NICE things about Mac lol

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

4. His aerials have very high start-up lag (other than his Nair), their range is piss poor, they have relatively big end lag (other than his Nair), the knock back on all of them are extremely low, and the amount of damage you actually rack up is worthless.

Sugar pie, he may have an absolutely shoddy air game but let me correct y'all on something: his aerials are not that slow to come out. Last I checked b-air is his slowest aerial at frame 11 which is acceptably fast. They seem slow due to the obvious input lag from FG matches.

 

[Mini_Mac]

Sugar pie, he may have an absolutely shoddy air game but let me correct y'all on something: his aerials are not that slow to come out. Last I checked b-air is his slowest aerial at frame 11 which is acceptably fast. They seem slow due to the obvious input lag from FG matches.

I'm not saying they are the slowest in the game in terms of startup but compared to other aerials by other character like Cloud, Corrin, Diddy, Sheik, Ryu, etc, all aerials by Little Mac seem like a joke.

Ok after all that you need to say some NICE things about Mac lol

Lol I mean I main the guy because of the reasons I listed at the end of my post. I think his ground options are impressive and as a noob smasher who is playing sm4sh as my first competative smash who only played Melee and Brawl for fun and didnt care for learning crazy aerial combos, naturally, Mac is my guy

 

[Contrast_94]

I just logged into to debunk some of what Mini Mac was complaining about

3: Mac has some of the best mix ups in the game with movement and he can jump to space himself. Walking, running, dash trotting to confuse opponents.

4:U-tilt B-air and D-tilt f-air still create interesting possibilities, d-air jab resets and u-air fast fall combos as a rare landing mix up as well as pseudo d-tilt n-air footstool jab reset combos.

6: Jump Cancel U-smash at the ledge, pivot f-smash at the ledge, and tilts and jab at the ledge are good at reacting to ledge options. But it is true Mac has to be more accurate then most characters that can gamble with hitbox placement. Regardless Mac at the ledge is a serious threat.

7: You are dead wrong this is one of the biggest illusions about Mac. Mac has amazing confirms, D-tilt TA U-tilt, D-tilt PP u-tilt, into Up B, U-smash, another PP u-tilt, B-air strings baiting airdodges and panic attacks with pivot f-smashes. Mac has like 50% confirms on fast fallers with bad DI and almost 40% no matter what. Mac has alot of combos and very creative too both true and mix ups I can list 100's of them. He only struggles to combo floaties

8: Mac has a very unique when you combine his tilts with perfect pivots or use then in turn arounds as well as having 3 variations of his f-smash and even some aerial strings.

9: He has a good counter and all counters have high end lag. Dont use it much in neutral accept when you think you can land as a mix up. You can purposely jump cancel a running counter if you want to punish someone charging an f-smash at your own risk.

10: Mac can approach by walking, short dashes, perfect pivots and extended perfect pivots via dash dance, cross ups with like AB pivot f-smash or perfect pivots. Roll cancel grab, pivot grab, normal grab Even simple stuff like run shield or rolling, dash attack. just don't get predictable with any of these things

 

[Green Donuts]

Little mac is is a very good character when just playing the game with your friends but competitively he is awful.

 

[Freduardo]

Ok after all that you need to say some NICE things about Mac lol

Read this in Doc Louis’ voice.

 

[Green Donuts]

He is fast and strong
also he has a good ground game
on any completely flat levels he is op