Why? I just can win. =\

[person701]

Link to original post: [drupal=2339]Why? I just can win. =\[/drupal]



As I was just sitting down playing Melee, I was finally able to actually comprehend how fast I was playing. Which struck me funny cause I could never see this before. Then it proceeded to hit me as to why I just can't seem to win.

I got into Melee back when it was big with MLG. I remember my first tourney and everyone after... which is like 5, haha. But looking back, I got better after each tourney by a huge margin. At first I didn't know a lot of ATs, then came the second, I knew them all. After that I found I couldn't control my characters as well as I thought. Now, by the fourth and fifth, I can do so much.

Just, why can't I win? I've been told the potential is there but I need more people practice. Well, come the my fifth I could keep up and I was grateful in the back of my mind. However, no matter how much better I get, I just keep getting knocked down almost as if when I grow in power, the rest of the community does too.

"People practice" are the words that stand out to me. Out of the approximate 1000 hours on my mem card logged, only about a tenth of them are with others... in my neighborhood. Most of my time is spent with computers practicing comboing and tech skill and they definatly aren't good for mindgames. I know I need to get out more to get better but I often don't have means of transportation or some event tends to ruin my fun.

I can't really ask for help cause I know what I need to improve on. But if I could get some pointers in the right direction I may be able to get off the floor. It just eats at me everytime I pick up Melee and put that satifying 0-death combo on a computer.

Sigh. =\ <!--break-->

 

[SuSa]

What level CPU's? I only use level 6 or 3, and honestly I don't really practice combo's on them (they aren't extremely reliable). They, if anything, are useful for spacing. Some combo's (uthrow-->rest as jiggs) and such will be far easier because..simple put.. CPU's can't DI -_-

I practice my tech skill in training mode, then find ways to apply it in match by watching matches, against cpu's, against friends (rarely :/) and simple theorycraft.

I've noticed that some people can play a character but can't play the game. It's very confusing what I mean by this, but playing the game refers to the actual aspects needed to win. Being able to read your opponent (knowing how to punish is playing the character), and knowing how and why things work is IMO better then knowing that it just works. When you ask yourself "why does this work" you are able to apply it at the proper times, and it generally helps you out more.

Being predictable is also a bad habit for playing the game.


Before people ask why I play vs cpu's :
I have friends into Melee, but they all (for the most part) prefer Brawl, simply because it's what we all play for money. Melee is funner, Brawl is where the money is at. (Especially if you live in SoCal... haha) If a Melee setup is at a tourney with friendlies, I won't even hesitate going over there.

EDIT:
I have 6000+ hours logged on my Melee, and a good 1600~ on my Brawl

 

[Uffe]

Well for starters, I noticed one thing you brought up and that was CPU's. I'm not sure if you fight them or not since that part is kind of vague. If you do, then that could possibly be your problem right there. Fighting a CPU will not help you get better since all they do is force you to create habits. Habits you then try on your opponents and end up losing because of it.

These habits are bound to make you predictable. Now again, I'm not sure if you fight CPU's on a daily basis. But if you do, refrain from doing so. If you want to try out combos or whatever, don't try to kill the CPU.

EDIT: You're better off listening to SuSa than me.

 

[POKE40]

Hmm...
Here is my list that I came up with some time ago.
Hopefully this can get you going somewhere.


This is a "you" based chart.

Hope it helps.


Pre-Advanced:

-Based on char. Character main's basic ATs
-DI/SDI: living is good, surviving is better.
-Short Hop: jumping short.
-Chain throws: chaining your throws.
-Gimping: The opponent must die.
-Spacing: No more of just running directly to your opponent
-Teching: surviving the fall
-Edge hogging: Being cheap.
-Basic knowledge of counter-picking
-Banned stages: The stages that tournaments don't allow
-Develop unique mind game.
-Set ups: setting up for the kill
-Baiting.

Advanced:

-All char based. Contains main char's ATs.
-Knowledge of character match-ups
-Knowledge of stage counterpicking
-Knowledge of what to do w/ main char in any given situation.

Advanced 2:

-Enter tournaments
-pick up and learn more characters.

Master:

-Study character frames.
-Own a lot of people in large tournaments.



------------NOTICE!---------------

All of the above is just general.
All of the above are possible to change to the reader's taste.

 

[SuSa]

Uffe, you do raise a good point there however. CPU's aren't exactly the smartest, and you tend to get habits because CPU's don't punish those habits.

However if he's practicing combo's, he'll only have those combo's down for when the opponent isn't DI'ing properly (most of the time), etc.

Also if he's just practicing combo's, training mode is better to use. You can setup the % the combo needs to happen around, and you can simply double-tap start to reset that %. Goes along with the "not trying to kill the CPU" idea.

 

[person701]

Well, I don't play computers on a daily basis. Whenever my friends are over, I try to get some Melee going (and usually succed ^.^). But saying CPUs don't DI is majorly true. I've seem different levels DI differently, but w/e. When playing CPUs I usually just set up 4stock 8time and play. I try my best not to form habit and IMO think I do a good job of preventing them. So Uffe, I guess you could say I fight them.

 

[KevinM]

The only thing you should be doing is working on your movement.

The ability to move flawlessly with your main is what separates the top 10 at any given tournament from the others.

 

[SuSa]

That is not the only thing, although it obviously makes a large factor.

But that does go back into spacing a bit.

 

[person701]

The concept of a CPU standing still seems wierd. And if I set it to "avoid" will it DI differently?

 

[SuSa]

No idea, try playing with the settings and see if you notice any difference in DI =p

It still won't mean they are DI'ing properly. lol But at least you get variations to how they DI.

 

[MarioMariox2]

POKE40 nice post. you should totally make a "How to better your general game" faq with those ranks.

 

[KevinM]

Susa: No, it is the only thing necessary playing comps. Being properly spaced is apart of moving your character. Combos, and what to do in situations comes from experience against humans.

 

[MarioMariox2]

M2K got good playing comps.

 

[SuSa]

Susa: No, it is the only thing necessary playing comps. Being properly spaced is apart of moving your character. Combos, and what to do in situations comes from experience against humans.

Combos actually exist in Melee. Uthrow --> Rest will work whether or not it is a human or a CPU. The only thing is that humans have variation. Whereas a computer will most likely DI the exact same way, every. Single. Time. Therefore you don't get to practice the variations and reading and the basics of actually playing the game. You do not know how humans react, you know how a CPU reacts.

Humans mix things up, humans don't always make the same choice (EG: dthrow a cpu as Snake near a side. They will roll towards the edge. You can repeat this until 999% and still repeat it....)

What to do in situations can come from watching videos, theorycrafting, and actual experience.