Why do I keep losing

[Michelangelo]

i've been playing melee for almost 4 months now and i've always had the problem that i hardly ever win.
I did improve a lot in these months and i'd my tech skill, movement etc. is pretty decent. But for some reason i just have a really hard time with winning matches. I lose on netplay to people who clearly are less experienced and don't have as much skill as i do. I also lose a lot to my brother (peach, marth, puff, sheik) and he doesn't even wavedash. When i play matches i can read my opponents pretty well but it still works out for them. I know i'm doing something (or multiple things) terribly wrong but i just can't seem to figure out what it is. If someone maybe has an idea pls tel me. (I've mained falco for all 4 months and i started to pick up fox this week as well)

 

[Stride]

Below a certain threshold your skill level is basically irrelevant. At 4 months you (and the other bad players you're playing) have so many major holes in your game that you'll lose because your opponent exploits whatever basic necessary thing you happen to have not learned yet (how to wavedash out of shield so you can beat Marth's f-smash spam, how to not double jump as soon as possible when thrown offstage every time so you don't get gimped for free, etc.). They still "deserve" to beat you.

Focus on learning and understanding instead of winning. The wins you're capable of getting at this level of play don't matter. When you get good you won't care whether you won or lost those friendlies against some other scrub when you were starting out. What you will care about is how much time you wasted stuck in bad habits because you were aiming to win and didn't want to risk trying new things. Don't let your ego get in the way.

Break down what's happening into discrete situations, for which you can focus on specific things to improve (the easiest/simplest way to do this is just to watch when you get hit, and then think about how you could've prevented it and why you made the decision that you did in the first place). Having a video to watch is invaluable for this (if you're on Dolphin you should be able to record easily enough), but you can still do a lot without one.

You'll find that you often do the same things without really thinking about it. If you stop just throwing yourself at a wall with a habitual option and stop to think about what you're actually trying to do, how you should accomplish it, and what your option choice actually does, then things will become much less frustrating. For instance: if you see your opponent dash towards you, don't just try to hit them with the first thing you possibly can; try to think about what their options are and which of your options would beat theirs (and the pros/cons of each). Watch them. Why are they dashing towards you? What do they want? What will they use to get it? What should you do and why? Watch what happens when you make your choice and learn from it.

Remember that there are a lot of little variations to every "option". You don't just have "a nair"; there are all the different heights, spacings, timings, buildups, followups, etc. that all change how it works dramatically and make them different options, really. If you see that you do a nair and it doesn't work, then that doesn't necessarily mean a nair was a bad option, but maybe that you needed to do it lower (to not get shieldgrabbed), or overshoot it (to catch a dash away rather than getting dash-dance grabbed), or after a slight delay (to force the opponent to choose an out of shield option before the nair hits, because you've been conditioning them to expect the earlier nair in that situation).

 

[IoSSBM]

The problem is your reliance on tech exclusively. As a new player (1 year of Melee, with only a couple weeks of super-serious play) I can tell you that I can grind tech 24/7 and it won't do zip. The big thing is learning. I see Boot E King (who bodied me at a local tourney) and I see him doing fancy tech, so it must be that you gotta be technical to be good, but that's not the case. LEARNING how to implement tech and use it to it's fullest is the big thing.

 

[Synnett]

First thing, do you play to win? This seems to be a recurring issue among the smash community. I've seen tons of new players playing top tiers, mostly Falco and Marth, come to a tournament, get beaten and rage quit in a harsh manner. It's only natural to want to win, I mean it's fun, and the "fame" that comes with winning a tournament is quite likeable. But sadly, it won't launch you anywhere. By wanting to win at any means, you won't be able to focus on the game, you won't be able to see your mistakes and fix them.

Is it your issue? Because it was mine; not when I joined the competitive scene, but when I was younger, I played Pikachu with my friends at parties, and I was saltier than the sea. Until one day on Brawl where my friends started pressing pause at times and laugh at the scenes. This made me like the game, then made me passionated about it. I decided to pick Bowser to troll my friend and rekt his Link. I found that he was fun to play, and I was comfortable with its movement, unlike fast characters. And suddenly, bem! I'm the best Bowser in my area, and one of the best players in terms of game techs and mechanics. The people went to respect my Bowser and I'm having fun. And as the guy above me said, it's not about knowing all the techs, but it's to implement them into your game.

What about you? Is there a character you like, but you don't play it because it's not top tier? Mr. Game & Watch? Mewtwo? Come on, pick it and have some fun. I'm pretty sure the reason why your brother is better than you is because he love this game. Show him how you rock with a mid-tier lol. And then, when you feel ready, you may want to pick a better character and go far. I'm pretty sure Falco is not your favorite character.

 

[mythbust4000]

The thing is to learn why you are losing
Take a step back and think how are they punishing you what could you do more/ less etc etc
And also boarp almost beat toph and toph is top 100 and boarp uses 0 tech no short hop,never grape ledge,he plays less technical then a casual so tech does not =victory

 

[EPsilon933]

i've been playing melee for almost 4 months now

I lose on netplay to people who clearly are less experienced

It's like almost 4 months is a relatively long time to gain experience

don't have as much skill as i do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

I also lose a lot to my brother (peach, marth, puff, sheik) and he doesn't even wavedash

That's not the only skill, let alone technique, in this game. Strategy > ability

When i play matches i can read my opponents pretty well but it still works out for them

If this is the case, you should be doing the correct actions against their actions. You might not have a good perception about what's going on

I know i'm doing something (or multiple things) terribly wrong

You're only considering your own abilities[/QUOTE]

 

[GenNyan]

What about you? Is there a character you like, but you don't play it because it's not top tier? Mr. Game & Watch? Mewtwo? Come on, pick it and have some fun. I'm pretty sure the reason why your brother is better than you is because he love this game. Show him how you rock with a mid-tier lol. And then, when you feel ready, you may want to pick a better character and go far. I'm pretty sure Falco is not your favorite character.

Its great that you like low-tiers but idk man... Falco is an incredibly fun character for a lot of people. Top tiers are generally more fun for people than low-tiers cuz they can move faster, do more stuff, and win more often. Even hungrybox said that he has the most fun playing falco. I would not advise trying to switch characters just because he is losing or hitting a rough patch anyway. There are reasons to switch ofc, but it will not help him much in the short term.

And unfortunately, his brother can love the game all he wants, but that doesn't make him any better of a player. OP likely has a hole in his game that his brother is exploiting (his brother might not even realize it though).

 

[Michelangelo]

First thing, do you play to win? This seems to be a recurring issue among the smash community. I've seen tons of new players playing top tiers, mostly Falco and Marth, come to a tournament, get beaten and rage quit in a harsh manner. It's only natural to want to win, I mean it's fun, and the "fame" that comes with winning a tournament is quite likeable. But sadly, it won't launch you anywhere. By wanting to win at any means, you won't be able to focus on the game, you won't be able to see your mistakes and fix them.

Is it your issue? Because it was mine; not when I joined the competitive scene, but when I was younger, I played Pikachu with my friends at parties, and I was saltier than the sea. Until one day on Brawl where my friends started pressing pause at times and laugh at the scenes. This made me like the game, then made me passionated about it. I decided to pick Bowser to troll my friend and rekt his Link. I found that he was fun to play, and I was comfortable with its movement, unlike fast characters. And suddenly, bem! I'm the best Bowser in my area, and one of the best players in terms of game techs and mechanics. The people went to respect my Bowser and I'm having fun. And as the guy above me said, it's not about knowing all the techs, but it's to implement them into your game.

What about you? Is there a character you like, but you don't play it because it's not top tier? Mr. Game & Watch? Mewtwo? Come on, pick it and have some fun. I'm pretty sure the reason why your brother is better than you is because he love this game. Show him how you rock with a mid-tier lol. And then, when you feel ready, you may want to pick a better character and go far. I'm pretty sure Falco is not your favorite character.

It's not like i can't stand losing. Losing can help you improve and learn things. It's just that it seems like my improvement is not making me win games and i don't understand what i'm doing so wrong. I play to win most of the time but i don't really get salty from a loss.

From what i've been saying it probably looks like i'm just a tryhard who mains the 2 best characters in the game but i know competing isn't everything.
I play doc, mario or pika (who's not really a mid tier but whatever) just to try some funny stuff against my brother.
I've had multiple pichu ditto's on netplay. Yesterday i did an f smash only match against my brother with marth because it's just funny how it actually works out XD. It's not all about winning and being the best. I haven't even been to one tournament yet. (i wish i could though)

But what still got me the most into the game is still being able to really get better and seing my own improvement. When i first started i picked falco because i found him the coolest character to play with. I'd seen some videos from westballz and mango where they did really cool stuff with falco and i just really wanted to do that as well. I obviously knew he was pretty decent but not that he was the second best in the game. I didn't even know there was a tier list. I always have fun while playing and that's why i like the game so much.



Thanks a lot for all the help and advice. From what i've heard ii think i can conclude this: it's probably that i rely too much on tech skill and i try a bit too much. I should pay more attention to how i use it and space and think more before i do something. My own play is just one part of a match and i should also pay more attention to what my opponent is doing and how he makes his move work.

Does anyone know a good program to record gameplay from dolphin?

 

[100xp]

Its great that you like low-tiers but idk man... Falco is an incredibly fun character for a lot of people. Top tiers are generally more fun for people than low-tiers cuz they can move faster, do more stuff, and win more often. Even hungrybox said that he has the most fun playing falco. I would not advise trying to switch characters just because he is losing or hitting a rough patch anyway. There are reasons to switch ofc, but it will not help him much in the short term.

And unfortunately, his brother can love the game all he wants, but that doesn't make him any better of a player. OP likely has a hole in his game that his brother is exploiting (his brother might not even realize it though).

I honestly don't think that was his point. I'm going to speak from experience here, to try and elaborate Synnett's reasons for switching to a mid-low tier as opposed to continuously play high tier.
I main Falco, and I love playing Falco. But there are some things I can't do fluidly with Falco for some reason or other. I have trouble with utilts, shffling, wave dashing sometimes. And there are other days, when my Falco game is totally off. My reads are wrong, my movement is shotty, etc. On those days, I'll chose my favorite mid-low tiers as opposed to my main. Why? because I'm not trying to do anything special with them. I'm just playing them to have fun. So all of those techniques I practice and have down pact already just come naturally as I play the game without the serious competitive attitude, which playing Falco puts me into. I can shffl perfectly with Link. I can utilit and edge guard flawlessly with Sheik, and I can wave dash with no issue with Samus.
So using those characters, just to have fun and remember that I can use those techniques and implement them without my main, helps me get back into playing my main with some of that finesse I had been missing. Thing is though, is I don't enjoy playing any of those other characters as my main. They're just refreshers, characters to fall back on when my normal game is off. With that said, it isn't about totally forgetting about your love for your main and moving on to a character that's easier for you. It's about balancing out your competitive mindset with your "this game is fun" mindset.

 

[MattLib]

In order to win you must be prepared to lose.

 

[Roukiske]

Mechanics over tech skill my friend. You don't have to be able to shield drop bair ledge cancel dair to spike someone offstage.

Crouch cancelling destroys new players which I find really funny because it's so simple. Really takes some people by surprise if you haven't seen what it can do (lol Samus).

Do try to remember that being faster than your opponent doesn't necessarily mean you are better.

 

[Magellan]

Playing low tiers at a low skill level can be really beneficial for learning the game. If both players are bad, Falco (and other high tiers) can steam roll over people, or you can turn your brain off and still hold your own. For instance, mindlessly approaching with lasers and aerials. When you play a low tier character against a high tier, you can't just Falco people, you have to try much harder and actually play well. I got frustrated with Falco after about four months and I switched to Falcon for a couple months before switching back. My game improved immensely because I had to learn delicate neutral game techniques, tech chasing, follow ups, and baits. I had to use every trick in the book to do well with Falcon and it carried back to my Falco.

Sorry you're in a rough patch, man. Just remember while you're getting better, so is everyone else you're playing.

 

[GenNyan]

I honestly don't think that was his point. I'm going to speak from experience here, to try and elaborate Synnett's reasons for switching to a mid-low tier as opposed to continuously play high tier.
I main Falco, and I love playing Falco. But there are some things I can't do fluidly with Falco for some reason or other. I have trouble with utilts, shffling, wave dashing sometimes. And there are other days, when my Falco game is totally off. My reads are wrong, my movement is shotty, etc. On those days, I'll chose my favorite mid-low tiers as opposed to my main. Why? because I'm not trying to do anything special with them. I'm just playing them to have fun. So all of those techniques I practice and have down pact already just come naturally as I play the game without the serious competitive attitude, which playing Falco puts me into. I can shffl perfectly with Link. I can utilit and edge guard flawlessly with Sheik, and I can wave dash with no issue with Samus.
So using those characters, just to have fun and remember that I can use those techniques and implement them without my main, helps me get back into playing my main with some of that finesse I had been missing. Thing is though, is I don't enjoy playing any of those other characters as my main. They're just refreshers, characters to fall back on when my normal game is off. With that said, it isn't about totally forgetting about your love for your main and moving on to a character that's easier for you. It's about balancing out your competitive mindset with your "this game is fun" mindset.

If thats the case, my b, it sounded like synnett was trying to get him to switch mains or something. If he just wanted OP to play a different character for a day or so, thats totally fine. If his mentality is the issue, that might help him.

 

[Michelangelo]

If thats the case, my b, it sounded like synnett was trying to get him to switch mains or something. If he just wanted OP to play a different character for a day or so, thats totally fine. If his mentality is the issue, that might help him.

It's not mental. Like i said, i don't really mind losing because it can help me discover what i'm doing wrong. And i play a lot of other characters if i just want to do some funny stuff and my opponent will also do that most of times. I actually sacred comboed somebody with falcon today and wobbled someone till 500% 0_o. But i don't i'll ever drop falco because i simply enjoy playing and improving with him too much to not play him.

Just remember while you're getting better, so is everyone else you're playing.

That's definitly true and that's why I try to improve my play as much as I can. Smashboards also helped me a lot. I actually played multiple people recently on netplay to who I've losted before and this time I was able to beat everyone at least 3 times. Some people couldn't even take a game of me so I think that's a good sign for me .

 

[ViVio]

i've been playing melee for almost 4 months now and i've always had the problem that i hardly ever win.

I lose on netplay to people who clearly are less experienced and don't have as much skill as i do. I also lose a lot to my brother (peach, marth, puff, sheik) and he doesn't even wavedash.

rofl

Your real issue was already addressed, go read the post in a bunch of pink text, especially the last line

 

[Treedot]

I have a friend that I play with that has been practicing advanced Melee play for the past five years, he mains Falco and Marth and practices tech skill for at least a half hour every day, usually much more.

I've been playing Melee at a competitive level for almost a year, I main Puff and Peach, never wavedash, I'm terrible at L-cancelling but I try, and I still beat him regularly.

You can't expect to win just because you've got tech skill. You need actual skill to win, and it comes with time and practice, and lots of it.