Why did they remove the second stage of Castle Siege?

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I really liked that part of the stage, and I've been wondering why they removed it. I don't see anything bad about it.

 

[Terotrous]

It has walkoff edges, which are generally accepted to be terrible for competitive play. Though considering the stage isn't considered legal anyway it seems kind of pointless.

 

[Tryst]

Basically what Terotrous said but I'll add, If you go into your Project: M Build inside of pf/stage/melee/ and delete all three STGEMBLEM files, then you can have it back, and It probably won't effect others much because the stage isn't legal anyway. c:

 

[The_Altrox]

Honestly, if the stage isn't going to be in tournaments, there was no point in changing it.

I did like that stage as a counterpick in Brawl though and I didn't even main a chain grabber. I would love it if they were to take the second level and found a way to give it edges, but keep the breakable statues/platforms.

 

[Kati]

It's not pmbr's fault that it isn't in tournaments. They gave us the option to consider it as a counterpick, so please be grateful that they even tried in the first place.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Honestly, if the stage isn't going to be in tournaments, there was no point in changing it.

I did like that stage as a counterpick in Brawl though and I didn't even main a chain grabber. I would love it if they were to take the second level and found a way to give it edges, but keep the breakable statues/platforms.

So walkoff stages are disliked because of chain grabs? Anyway, I'd accept it even if it they gave it ledges. That would actually be kinda interesting. Though maybe they'll add it back because it's not accepted in tournaments anyway. Probably not though.

 

[Celestis]

PM has so many stages to pick from for the tournaments. I see no reason for this edit to be done for a counter pick. But I don't really complain ether.

 

[Raijinken]

On one hand, PM's stage viability is already far better than other games. On the other hand, though, it would presumably be desired in the long run for at least the majority of stages to be considered "viable", while others can be left as fan favorites or "party" stages like Temple.

Personally, I'd not be opposed to them taking Siege and maybe reworking the first form alone (or second, but it's harder to make something indoors look proper for falling off the edge in a medieval setting) to be larger and more unique, but not transition at all.

As for why the stage still isn't playable in most tournaments, that's probably because the transition phase still does the odd thing with the floor that can ruin some kills.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Honestly, I wish it didn't transform at all. I love the first part, I think the second part is lame and we already have a FD. We ain't about to do no for the glory.

 

[Terotrous]

As for why the stage still isn't playable in most tournaments, that's probably because the transition phase still does the odd thing with the floor that can ruin some kills.

Honestly I don't think that's enough reason to ban it. Yoshi's Story has Randall, who can sometimes ruin kills, but people just accept that as part of the stage.

 

[Raijinken]

Honestly I don't think that's enough reason to ban it. Yoshi's Story has Randall, who can sometimes ruin kills, but people just accept that as part of the stage.

That's true, but Randall also doesn't cover the entire bottom of the stage and briefly turn it into a walkoff. I don't consider the transition to be a big enough deal to ruin the stage when playing with my friends, but I can understand the reasoning at tournaments.

 

[Terotrous]

That's true, but Randall also doesn't cover the entire bottom of the stage and briefly turn it into a walkoff. I don't consider the transition to be a big enough deal to ruin the stage when playing with my friends, but I can understand the reasoning at tournaments.

But Randall's there all the time, while the transition only occurs for a few seconds every few minutes.

Also, realistically it's impossible to abuse the walk off edge here because there's nowhere near enough time to set up a chain grab or anything like that. The transition only lasts about a second.

But there's other stages that should be allowed before Castle Siege. Metal Cavern and Norfair are the two that bug me the most.

 

[Raijinken]

But Randall's there all the time, while the transition only occurs for a few seconds every few minutes.

Also, realistically it's impossible to abuse the walk off edge here because there's nowhere near enough time to set up a chain grab or anything like that. The transition only lasts about a second.

But there's other stages that should be allowed before Castle Siege. Metal Cavern and Norfair are the two that bug me the most.

I totally agree. Norfair I could see in its 3.02 version because it's really easy to flee and stall until time expires (if you're the sort of coward who'll resort to that to "win"), but Metal Cavern's absence always confused me. Same for Skyloft.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I do think they should add some more stages that are just there for fun. You can only have so many competitive friendly stages before things get kinda dull, or just feel the same. That's one of the more common complaints I see about the mod. I know the mod is aimed towards the competitive crowd, but not everyone who plays it are tourney goers. Some people just like the way Melee felt more, which is why they decided to download it. It's always nice to mix things up.

 

[Raijinken]

I do think they should add some more stages that are just there for fun. You can only have so many competitive friendly stages before things get kinda dull, or just feel the same. That's one of the more common complaints I see about the mod. I know the mod is aimed towards the competitive crowd, but not everyone who plays it are tourney goers. Some people just like the way Melee felt more, which is why they decided to download it. It's always nice to mix things up.

If they could pull a Smash 4 and make different forms of each stage selectable in-game, that would be glorious. Doubt it'd work, though. Then again, we didn't think they could outright add characters, either.

Alternately, just making different distributions for "competitive" and "party" versions of stages might work, too. Overwrite a stage folder, ready to play.

 

[JCOnyx]

The biggest reason transformation 2 isn't in P:M is because of Ivysaur, that's all there is to it.

 

[Kati]

"all there is to it" is an exaggeration, but Ivy is a super good point.

Even as a casual I never found the second phase fun.

And the third phase both tilts and has uneven ground, so comparing it to fd is just silly.

 

[Garquille14]

I just want to stay on the first map...

 

[The_Altrox]

Even as a casual I never found the second phase fun.

I did as a casual and whenever I played people in tourneys. I've never been great at any smash, but in Brawl, that was one of my go to stages, simply because most players are so accostumed to fighting on more neutralish fields. Picking one of the weirder counterpicks always helped me deal with players who were better than me on a technical level.

 

[Kati]

Hence why stages get banned in the first place I suppose.

 

[mimgrim]

Honestly, I wish it didn't transform at all. I love the first part, I think the second part is lame and we already have a FD. We ain't about to do no for the glory.

This this this this this this this.

The first part of the stage is very well built and totally legit. The tilting FD transformation is just really redundant, and a lot of people seem to dislike the transformation phase. The first part is also uniquely designed to actually make it pretty different from the more common legal stages.

 

[The_Altrox]

Hence why stages get banned in the first place I suppose.

But it's not like the stage was broken or anything. Everything about it was predictable and it wasn't like I used a chain grabber. Hell, Halberd is more crazy and that one is still a counterpick in Brawl (love that one too).