Why can't I ever avoid being juggled? (And other problems)

[RyanFoolz]

So I've been using Rosalina as she feels the most comfortable for me and have been doing okay with her. (I can basically beat up on the kids with no hands who are obvious noobs) But when I play someone good (I call them "smash kids" because I come from console shooters where everyone is some type of "kid") I've been getting just destroyed, which is to be expected but one thing I can't seem to get a grasp on is how to essentially fall down with her. I read all the guides and watch videos and alot of them are saying and showing Dairs but i feel like when I do them nothing connects and I just sit there getting juggled in the air until I'm at a high percent and just get KOd. I'm also having trouble battling a ledge guard alot as well which I guess can kind of go in the same type of area. What do you guys do to avoid being juggled and what am I doing wrong? It just feels like every single move I make in the air doesn't connect and theirs always does and I'm always the one being hit.

I'm also having a lot of problems spacing certain things against good players like grabs and Up smashs, forward smashes etc (feel like I'm always whiffing grabs and getting my hits blocked then punished). Is that something that you develop over time or are there any tips for that as well? I really like this character and want to stick with her but I just can't seem to shake these issues and get better.

 

[Iron Kraken]

First of all, realize that if something isn't working, you should probably stop trying to do it. In other words, don't keep challenging an opponents U-air with your Dair. Yes, Dair has huge range, but you can still whiff with it easily and leave yourself open to an assault.

When I'm hit into the air, my #1 priority is to recover to the ground safely. You have to work on the timing of your air dodges to get out of these situations. Usually I after I dodge my opponent, I will fast fast, and often times on the way down I will catch my opponent with a Bair and regain the momentum.

If your opponent is edge guarding you when you're off the stage, remember that you can angle her recovery so that you either reach the ledge (riding the bottom of the stage to the top for safety) or if you sense your opponent is committed to preventing you from reaching this spot, you can angle her recovery horizontally and reach the middle of the stage before your opponent can get there. This is especially useful on stages with reachable platforms like Battlefield.

When I first started playing Rosalina, I would also always try to challenge with Dair on the way down, but eventually I learned that evasion is the best possible strategy when you're trying to return to the stage.

I'm not really sure what to say about the spacing of your grabs and smash attacks, except that practice makes perfect. Also remember that Rosalina's smash attacks have much more range and power when Luma is attached to her.

If you have fun using Rosalina, just stick with it, and you should get the hang of it. Until 2 months ago I hadn't even played Smash in years. And now I have a 94% win rate in For Glory using her exclusively. She can definitely get the job done for you once you get the hang of her.

 

[RyanFoolz]

First of all, realize that if something isn't working, you should probably stop trying to do it. In other words, don't keep challenging an opponents U-air with your Dair. Yes, Dair has huge range, but you can still whiff with it easily and leave yourself open to an assault.

When I'm hit into the air, my #1 priority is to recover to the ground safely. You have to work on the timing of your air dodges to get out of these situations. Usually I after I dodge my opponent, I will fast fast, and often times on the way down I will catch my opponent with a Bair and regain the momentum.

If your opponent is edge guarding you when you're off the stage, remember that you can angle her recovery so that you either reach the ledge (riding the bottom of the stage to the top for safety) or if you sense your opponent is committed to preventing you from reaching this spot, you can angle her recovery horizontally and reach the middle of the stage before your opponent can get there. This is especially useful on stages with reachable platforms like Battlefield.

When I first started playing Rosalina, I would also always try to challenge with Dair on the way down, but eventually I learned that evasion is the best possible strategy when you're trying to return to the stage.

I'm not really sure what to say about the spacing of your grabs and smash attacks, except that practice makes perfect. Also remember that Rosalina's smash attacks have much more range and power when Luma is attached to her.

If you have fun using Rosalina, just stick with it, and you should get the hang of it. Until 2 months ago I hadn't even played Smash in years. And now I have a 94% win rate in For Glory using her exclusively. She can definitely get the job done for you once you get the hang of her.

Thanks for the response. I'm in the same boat, I hadn't played smash since melee as a kid and picked it back up on 3ds and obv WiiU now. I'll try to start just trying to land rather than challenging, I guess that could be a potential downfall watching tournament VOD thinking I can match it right away or something. When I say I was having issues being edge guarded I more meant when I'm literally on the ledge and the opponent is waiting for me essentially, I always seem to get hit or baited into something as I climb back on (whatever way I try).

As far as the spacing stuff goes, I guess I just have to keep at it. I really don't get why I whiff so much and miss when I feel like I'm positioning myself well enough to get it off. Just super frustrating feeling like every single hit I try gets out connected/out hit by theirs or misses/whiffs. I'm also trying to get used to short hopping and being able to land tilts cuz idk what it is but I must be pressing the buttons too hard or something because I can't seem to get those on a consistent basis either.

 

[Parcheesy]

I can't answer everything, but I'll try to provide a few general tips that helped me when I was in your shoes.

- Boost grabbing is amazing on Rosalina ( Cancelling dash attack with grab ). Not only does it extend your grab range, but it causes Luma to attack ahead of you, making it that much safer. Sometimes Luma will knock them away from your grab, but that's fine, it's still a winning exchange.

- The juggling problem is most likely that you're using your moves anticipating your opponents to go in, when your opponents are simply waiting for you to whiff a move. With down air, you only want to use it when they've committed to an approach, and you know they will be below you when the move is nearing its maximum range. Other than that, you should do as Kraken said and just try to land safely. If your opponent is waiting to punish an aerial, they might just let you land if you do nothing rather than risk your giant hitboxes popping out.

- You're right in that tilts are really useful for safe Rosalina pressure. Usually you can poke from a maximum range luma tilt, then quickly dash away, readying a quick pivot ftilt if they attempt a dash grab / attack. Once you get used to the crazy range some of her moves have, you'll have less issue of people punishing from shield.

Most of all, just keep playing the character. She's definitely unique in playstyle, and incredibly rewarding once you've gotten her kit down.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just as a tip, Rosalina's down aerial is less effective without the Luma by her side; the Luma's down aerial packs a bigger punch than any of Rosalina's down aerial hitboxes.

 

[RyanFoolz]

I can't answer everything, but I'll try to provide a few general tips that helped me when I was in your shoes.

- Boost grabbing is amazing on Rosalina ( Cancelling dash attack with grab ). Not only does it extend your grab range, but it causes Luma to attack ahead of you, making it that much safer. Sometimes Luma will knock them away from your grab, but that's fine, it's still a winning exchange.

- The juggling problem is most likely that you're using your moves anticipating your opponents to go in, when your opponents are simply waiting for you to whiff a move. With down air, you only want to use it when they've committed to an approach, and you know they will be below you when the move is nearing its maximum range. Other than that, you should do as Kraken said and just try to land safely. If your opponent is waiting to punish an aerial, they might just let you land if you do nothing rather than risk your giant hitboxes popping out.

- Your right in that tilts are really useful for safe Rosalina pressure. Usually you can poke from a maximum range luma tilt, then quickly dash away, readying a quick pivot ftilt if they attempt a dash grab / attack. Once you get used to the crazy range some of her moves have, you'll have less issue of people punishing from shield.

Most of all, just keep playing the character. She's definitely unique in playstyle, and incredibly rewarding once you've gotten her kit down.

I'll definitely look into boost grabbing (I assume it's as easy as it sounds haha) I feel like that would help me a lot when approaching with a grab. And to answer your second point, I totally agree and can see myself doing it too early a lot, but I think I get held up because it feels like when I try and wait to do it it's always too late and there I am getting Up aired again. I'm going to definitely try and focus more on this when I play today. I'll also definitely need to work on my tilts, I'm finding it very hard to get them consistently because it feels like even when I'm barely pressing in the stick it still goes for a smash rather than a tilt, happens when I try to short hop sometimes also but not as much.

Appreciate you guys helping me out! I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions along the way and I'm determined to get better at this game and use this character so I'll definitely be lurking and posting on this forum quite a bit in the future.

 

[Parcheesy]

Another Star Bit joins the fold! I look forward to playing you in some intense Rosalina dittos somewhere down the line.

Oh yeah, and for the juggling thing, keep in mind Rosalina doesn't really have a good answer to people approaching from diagonally below her, so anyone with a good diagonally up hitbox is going to have a massively easier time juggling you ( Ex: Shiek up-air, Ganon f-air, Mario up-air, etc ). If you're going against these, I wouldn't even attempt to down air, just float the ledge, or try an unpredictable air dodge.

 

[RyanFoolz]

Another Star Bit joins the fold! I look forward to playing you in some intense Rosalina dittos somewhere down the line.

Oh yeah, and for the juggling thing, keep in mind Rosalina doesn't really have a good answer to people approaching from diagonally below her, so anyone with a good diagonally up hitbox is going to have a massively easier time juggling you ( Ex: Shiek up-air, Ganon f-air, Mario up-air, etc ). If you're going against these, I wouldn't even attempt to down air, just float the ledge, or try an unpredictable air dodge.

Good to know! That also explains a bit of my issue the other night. I was playing a Captain Falcon a lot last night (i try to stay in the lobbies of the guys who destroy me to learn things, RIP my win percentage) and this guy was very very good and was giving me all kinds of hell with his speed and moves. Stupid question but is air dodging just the way you decide to fall/move when you're falling or is it when you hit right trigger in the air (goes invisible for a second), I know SUPER nooby question, but I just want to make sure I learn all the proper lingo haha.

 

[Parcheesy]

Good to know! That also explains a bit of my issue the other night. I was playing a Captain Falcon a lot last night (i try to stay in the lobbies of the guys who destroy me to learn things, RIP my win percentage) and this guy was very very good and was giving me all kinds of hell with his speed and moves. Stupid question but is air dodging just the way you decide to fall/move when you're falling or is it when you hit right trigger in the air (goes invisible for a second), I know SUPER nooby question, but I just want to make sure I learn all the proper lingo haha.

Yeah, the only reason I just posted this now is because I was doing the same exact thing with a great Ganon player last night. To answer your question, it's usually referring to the back triggers, but you do anything you can to avoid getting hit. This means weaving in and out, air dodging, or even using nair / fair to float over an attack.