Whole Bunch of Marth Questions

[Lime_O]

Hey guys, got a few questions.
I understand that Marht's grab is OP, but how should I get into the grab?
What should I be doing in the neutral game?
Is Cpt Falcon vulnerable to up throw CG? Or is he too heavy?
I've seen 3rd side hit of Side Special used to KO (M2K near the end of TBH4, don't remember which game), but just how viable is it?
Finally, is Marth viable for a single main? I know PPU is pretty close to just Math (may have seen some fox from him), but I've heard Marth is just not good enough on his own to be your single character.

Thanks guys.

 

[djmath]

dash dance and dtilt until you can get a grab, just fish for it. This is the best option by far
if your opponent is bad and will do dumb things like dash attack your shield or use punishable aerials on your shield, you can shield grab
if you're really ballsy and/or have good timing you can grab any attack provided that the frame that it would hit you is the same frame that your grab box hits them (and does). There's nothing like grabbing fox's fsmash or a raptor boost.

Marth's neutral game is to dash dance and wait for your opponent to overcommit so you can punish with a grab or anything else you feel like. Dance dance dtilt and wavedash downtilt are good safe approaches. Short hop double fair is a good unsafe approach as well as other aerials. Creating aerial walls is something else you can do in neutral to try to make your opponent to approach you so you can do something. In general, approaching with marth is not something you want to do in neutral, but there are circumstances where it can be beneficial.

You can't up throw chain grab falcon the same way you can fox, but you can up throw short hop up air (I'm not sure of the %) and that's brutal. Usually people suggest down throws and tech chases against falcon

3rd hit dancing blade is very viable and underused, but is also punishable if you whiff, either because they read it or because you mistimed it.

If you put in the work you can do anything dude. Marth doesn't really have matchups that are one-sided, but not ever single MU is in his favor. Yes, marth sheik is bad, but watch PPMD's marth wreck m2k's sheik; the MU is not unwinnable. You can win any match you want as long as you can outsmart, outclass, and outplay your opponent. That may be obvious, but marth is definitely a viable character to main if you're only going to main one. Don't listen to the haters

 

[goateeguy]

Against a player with good defense, third-hit side-B should almost never land. If they get hit by the first or second hit they can get out before the third hit, and if you hit their shield, the third hit is unlikely to shield poke unless their shield is very very small already (not a common scenario considering how little Marth pressures people by swinging at them). The third hit is punishable; you should get shield-grabbed afterward. If they didn't get hit by the first hits, it'd be silly of them to run in before you've finished the sequence since they can just punish your fourth hit. In practice it does work sometimes, but it's the kind of thing that works because your opponent doesn't expect it, not because it's particularly effective.

Otherwise I agree with djmath.

 

[djmath]

Against a player with good defense, third-hit side-B should almost never land... In practice it does work sometimes, but it's the kind of thing that works because your opponent doesn't expect it, not because it's particularly effective.

So true. Dancing blade is like marth's falcon punch; when your opponent can predict it, defend it, and/or exploit it, it's pretty garbage. but sometimes the fear takes over or they don't know the timing or they forget that dancing blade is punishable and you can get a kill. It works because your opponent is bad, not because it's really good. But it's totes viable if you catch your opponent off guard; so is reverse dolphin slash and all of marth's other cool moves that are inconvenient; counter into dair off stage, 3rd hit of dancing blade down as an edgeguard, counter in general...

TL;DR
Viable =/= optimal. You can do any move you want, just know that there are drawbacks, opportunity costs, and punishes for any choice you make, and sometimes you have to make that read of doing something viable yet punishable and go really deep for a combo, or something optimal and not very punishable to maybe kinda sorta set up for a KO or edgeguard situation

 

[Lime_O]

Thanks for your help guys. One thing I still have trouble is effectively using d-tilt.

Also, I posted this literally minutes before a Q&A thread was attempted again. Sorry to anyone who cares.

 

[goateeguy]

Thanks for your help guys. One thing I still have trouble is effectively using d-tilt.

http://www.meleeitonme.com/sharpening-your-sword-tais-marth-guide/

excellent read on that and many other subjects