Where's all the friendship? Competitive team battle discussion

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I've noticed there's very few threads that talk about metas besides singles. That's disappointing to me, since smash always seemed to me to be more enjoyable with more than two players (I've warmed up to singles a lot though). So I thought this would be a good place to start discussing at least the 2v2 meta, if not also 3v3 or even 4v4.

I'll start things off with the first topic for discussion: which stages that are not singles friendly become friendly in doubles? I've heard a lot of good things about Kongo jungle 64 in doubles specifically, but I'm also really hoping hyrule castle 64 is one of those stages. It's just so nostalgic for me

Also with 4 player matches, the option of having a 5th player to make more legal stages available is a lot more feasible. Anyone for pyrosphere or Pokemon stadium 2?

 

[Raijinken]

While I love the idea of using 8-player smash's settings to enable Pyrosphere or Stadium 2 (though I think Stadium 2 is fine even as-is), the time it takes (regardless of simplicity) adds up pretty quickly in big tournaments, and it requires an extra person to start each match.

Aside from that, I'd be interested to see what happens on Big Battlefield in doubles. The rest that I think would be good in Doubles I think are good for Singles, too. Kongo 64 included.

 

[SionReaver]

What do people think of Hyrule's Castle for teams? It has enough room but the problem is that tornado. It would be one thing if it was pre-set but its random so not sure how often you'll be seeing them at tournaments.(Probably not)

As for more on the topic, I've been watching a lot of 3v3 matches. People often say its too chaotic, but honestly once you watch it enough your eyes get used to it. It's great for eye coordination in my opinion. I was originally going to say it still might be too chaotic to make decent commentary, but after seeing some do a good job I don't think that's true either.

4v4 on the other hand, kinda a different animal. Only time I've seen it comment on well was the big KTAR match a big back, so it is possible but harder then triples, which is harder then doubles far as commentary on. Main problem is lack of viable stages. If I recall, Paultena Temple was out because it was too big so that encouraged camping even in that format?

 

[Raijinken]

What do people think of Hyrule's Castle for teams? It has enough room but the problem is that tornado. It would be one thing if it was pre-set but its random so not sure how often you'll be seeing them at tournaments.(Probably not)

As for more on the topic, I've been watching a lot of 3v3 matches. People often say its too chaotic, but honestly once you watch it enough your eyes get used to it. It's great for eye coordination in my opinion. I was originally going to say it still might be too chaotic to make decent commentary, but after seeing some do a good job I don't think that's true either.

4v4 on the other hand, kinda a different animal. Only time I've seen it comment on well was the big KTAR match a big back, so it is possible but harder then triples, which is harder then doubles far as commentary on. Main problem is lack of viable stages. If I recall, Paultena Temple was out because it was too big so that encouraged camping even in that format?

I think the actual issue with Hyrule Castle is that you still have a cave of life/campable drop-down area. The tornado is annoying, but it's avoidable (though I don't know how quickly the hitbox becomes active, or if it can spawn directly on players), and like most hazards, not lethal until around a normal lethal percent.

3v3 and 4v4 are both things I'm interested in, but the stagelists for both are hard to work out. Palutena's Temple has a massively campable cave of life in the bottom left, and is freaking huge, even for eight-player fights (not even Hyrule is that disruptively huge). Big Battlefield is basically perfect for both styles, but people really don't like single-stage metagames for some reason.

I could see 3v3 working on:
Big Battlefield
Pyrosphere
Kongo 64
Smashville
Duck Hunt
(If reasonable) Peach's Castle
(If reasonable) Hyrule Castle
(If reasonable) Norfair

And I could see 4v4 working on:
Big Battlefield
Pyrosphere
(If reasonable) Norfair
MAYBE Smashville. Probably too cramped at this point.
MAYBE Kongo Jungle

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Add Pokemon stadium 2 to the 3v3 list

Also: lemme know about other things y'all wanna discuss. The ryu board had an "optimal doubles partner" thread that was a good inspiration for this thread, and also I know there's a lot of talk about "jank gimmicks" like needles + bucket at evo.

 

[Raijinken]

I thought it was Vanish Bucket that was a nonsense combo?

But yea, things like that are fun to discuss.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Yeah it probably was vanish bucket lol

 

[SionReaver]

Yeah it probably was vanish bucket lol

It's late(understatement) but just came back from doing some things and these words made me think. Is there like any way to get around it in some form? Has anyone found anything?

I saw a three vs three Grand Finals here

It was my first time seeing it in action, and seems even harder to stop on larger teams. I remember it was banned in doubles on one of the big events(can't recall where) but not everywhere. However, I don't see it being used all the time in dubs. So either there's been ways found around about it, or just not used because people feel its too unfair.

I'm scratching my head trying to think of a way around it that's consistent, there has to be something though.

 

[Stromp]

I don't see how 4v4 would be possible, but I would love to see pro players try it out. If this has been done someone link it please

 

[Frizz]

I don't see how 4v4 would be possible, but I would love to see pro players try it out. If this has been done someone link it please

Agreed. Competitive Smash should give 8 Player Smash a chance. Also, I've seen VGBootCamp post some 4v4 matches here, here, and here. They might have more, though.

 

[Stromp]

Agreed. Competitive Smash should give 8 Player Smash a chance. Also, I've seen VGBootCamp post some 4v4 matches here, here, and here. They might have more, though.

This is madness haha thanks for sharing. It seems the commentators will have trouble with this. Maybe they can just talk about random stuff instead of the match

Very entertaining

 

[SionReaver]

This is madness haha thanks for sharing. It seems the commentators will have trouble with this. Maybe they can just talk about random stuff instead of the match

Very entertaining

It's just my personal opinion, but I think 3v3 would end up more the norm simply due to logistics and easier to keep up with. Commenting 3v3 from the matches I seen is more more manageable, still I enjoy 4v4 a great deal. But honestly who's to say, what the future will be like, the game is still very young.

 

[Stromp]

It's just my personal opinion, but I think 3v3 would end up more the norm simply due to logistics and easier to keep up with. Commenting 3v3 from the matches I seen is more more manageable, still I enjoy 4v4 a great deal. But honestly who's to say, what the future will be like, the game is still very young.

Totally agree. I'm not sure how much of the competitive community is willing to try this, but as you said the game is still young