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Where do I put C4s/mines /motors/nades?
- Thread starter CelloLuCC
- Start date
cisyphus
Smash Ace
tl;dr: Pick up on your opponents' movement habits. This question is amazingly open-ended and can't really be answered more simply than that.
Most people actually tend to have a sort of routine that they do and are comfortable with. I like to wavedash off the inner side of platforms toward the center, so I'd use mines to force myself to do something else. If your opponent auto-pilots, you catch them. More concretely, if I know Marths like to dashdance for grabs, I'll place a mine between he and I and use grenades and C4 to pressure him into jumping so that I can catch him with an anti-air like u-tilt or Cypher. If I know that Samus's missile cancels on platforms is really overwhelming, I might use a mine to cover one of the platforms so that the Samus can't use it to missile cancel, and then I'll use Snake's own range to prevent the camping on the other platform, which forces them to approach to push me away from that platform. If I play someone with a really slow vertical mobility like Kirby, Puff, or Peach, I might just cover both side platforms with a C4 and Mine and then camp top platform, utilizing AGT grenades and shield drops to aggravate their position and pressure them into an approach. If it's even a bigger sort of opponent like Bowser or Dedede or even tall ones like Ganon or Samus, you can actually use mines on platforms as effective C4s, placing a new one to detonate the old one, catching them up in the explosion. A lot of this also depends on your percentages: if you're both relatively low, platforms aren't always safe since Snake is easily forced into his mines, which then sets you up for a free juggle. If you're relatively low and they're rather high, though, that's good in a variety of ways via comboing into it as a finisher and controlling space for extended juggle sequences. All of these options can also be used in edgeguarding, and should be explored in that facet as well. All of that is mostly focused on Mines, though.
Grenades are even more flexible given your capacity to cook, drop, roll, throw, and lob them as well as other minute micro-placement options that exist via rolling and air dodging. Primarily, grenades are used in a similar fashion, though. Grenades place a sudden trap into a space, and your task with using a grenade is to place it in such a way that your opponent will run into it or allow you to return to neutral where you can continue pressuring them into making a mistake. Something Messi does is that he drops a grenade and then grabs his opponent into a down throw, whereby their only "safe" option is to roll away, since staying in place or rolling behind still keeps them in the grenade's radius and puts them in a perceived danger (even though Snake is also in that zone). So what Messi does is he runs in the direction of that roll away and is able to capitalize on every option simply because of the perceived threat of the grenade. That example works to demonstrate that the grenade doesn't even necessarily need to hit, it just needs to pressure your opponent and limit their movement. If it DOES hit, you get stage position and a solid follow-up off the hitstun. If it doesn't, you're free to continue lobbing grenades until they DO hit (keeping in mind that the grenade itself does damage on top of its explosion). Grenades can also be used to discourage shield pressure or break up incomplete combo strings simply by pulling one out and having Snake's back to the opponent. Grenades are also the easiest special to b-reverse, so they're good for mixing up your movement as well.
If I can't offer any other advice, just play around with your projectiles. Learn the AGT tech and the IGT tech too (do a forum search to find that one). Get comfortable with all the timings and the spacings. You'll develop a natural feel for the projectiles and be able to put them where you need them.
Most people actually tend to have a sort of routine that they do and are comfortable with. I like to wavedash off the inner side of platforms toward the center, so I'd use mines to force myself to do something else. If your opponent auto-pilots, you catch them. More concretely, if I know Marths like to dashdance for grabs, I'll place a mine between he and I and use grenades and C4 to pressure him into jumping so that I can catch him with an anti-air like u-tilt or Cypher. If I know that Samus's missile cancels on platforms is really overwhelming, I might use a mine to cover one of the platforms so that the Samus can't use it to missile cancel, and then I'll use Snake's own range to prevent the camping on the other platform, which forces them to approach to push me away from that platform. If I play someone with a really slow vertical mobility like Kirby, Puff, or Peach, I might just cover both side platforms with a C4 and Mine and then camp top platform, utilizing AGT grenades and shield drops to aggravate their position and pressure them into an approach. If it's even a bigger sort of opponent like Bowser or Dedede or even tall ones like Ganon or Samus, you can actually use mines on platforms as effective C4s, placing a new one to detonate the old one, catching them up in the explosion. A lot of this also depends on your percentages: if you're both relatively low, platforms aren't always safe since Snake is easily forced into his mines, which then sets you up for a free juggle. If you're relatively low and they're rather high, though, that's good in a variety of ways via comboing into it as a finisher and controlling space for extended juggle sequences. All of these options can also be used in edgeguarding, and should be explored in that facet as well. All of that is mostly focused on Mines, though.
Grenades are even more flexible given your capacity to cook, drop, roll, throw, and lob them as well as other minute micro-placement options that exist via rolling and air dodging. Primarily, grenades are used in a similar fashion, though. Grenades place a sudden trap into a space, and your task with using a grenade is to place it in such a way that your opponent will run into it or allow you to return to neutral where you can continue pressuring them into making a mistake. Something Messi does is that he drops a grenade and then grabs his opponent into a down throw, whereby their only "safe" option is to roll away, since staying in place or rolling behind still keeps them in the grenade's radius and puts them in a perceived danger (even though Snake is also in that zone). So what Messi does is he runs in the direction of that roll away and is able to capitalize on every option simply because of the perceived threat of the grenade. That example works to demonstrate that the grenade doesn't even necessarily need to hit, it just needs to pressure your opponent and limit their movement. If it DOES hit, you get stage position and a solid follow-up off the hitstun. If it doesn't, you're free to continue lobbing grenades until they DO hit (keeping in mind that the grenade itself does damage on top of its explosion). Grenades can also be used to discourage shield pressure or break up incomplete combo strings simply by pulling one out and having Snake's back to the opponent. Grenades are also the easiest special to b-reverse, so they're good for mixing up your movement as well.
If I can't offer any other advice, just play around with your projectiles. Learn the AGT tech and the IGT tech too (do a forum search to find that one). Get comfortable with all the timings and the spacings. You'll develop a natural feel for the projectiles and be able to put them where you need them.
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