When should I use perfect pivots and dash trotting?

[Contrast_94]

I'm referring to high level play as I can easily do use perfect pivot approaches on FG scrubs

I tried using perfect pivots and extended perfect pivots in neutral for the past few weeks and it's really hard and technically demanding and it doesn't seem to work as well as I thought it would a while back. I'm doing worse because of it.

When should I use perfect pivots? The only consistent use I'm getting out of it is D-tilt into PP u-tilt and other PP combos
Should I use it OOS to bait, approach, punish or catch landings or rolls?

It gets frustrating knowing all this hard work I spent learning this and it feels alot less rewarding at times.


Can someone please tell me when is the best time to use perfect pivots, extended perfect pivots and dash trotting?

 

[jet56]

Dude, i feel you. Im not trying to brag, but im probably one of the most techy macs out there. So i can tell you that it's really up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLAD6TockFQ

this is me in one of my more recent matches. I use it a lot, but only because i have labbed it and been using it in neutral for over a year now. it doesn't come easy. And, truth be told, you don't need to play like that to win (although i do believe it is the best way to play mac, in my opinion).

It really is your discretion on when you should be dash trotting or not, but i can give some general guidelines:

Dash trotting is really good mindgame, but you should have a good amount of stage control, and should only be using it as a mixup. typically dash trotting is meant to mix up the timing of when you plan on doing something, or to bait your opponent to respond (defensively or offensively). good example is pivot grabbing to punish an opponent shielding. then maybe later dash trotting forward to bait a spot dodge response (cause they are anticipating a grab) then dashing back out and in for a quick punish.

PP's are much more universal in their application. i enjoy using them to microspace my moves, force opponents to whiff punish attacks, extend and optimize my combos, and to catch landings (dash trot to PP Utilt is great for this). Again, this is much more difficult to say for sure, but its really up to you on a player when it is a good time to do so. But it will come easier the more you do it. It just takes time and practice.

 

[Contrast_94]

I know you are not trying to brag I've heard of your Mac, Seen your montages on Youtube of you using perfect pivots, movement, roll cancel grabs. alt pivot smashes, JC KO punch ect. You clearly show a mastery of the character I was just hoping that you or some other top level Mac's like J.A.P.A.N could give me some ideas.

I do an enormous amount of labbing with Mac as well and I'm really trying to take Mac to new heights

 

[NonJohns]

My take on sols advice:
when you're within your opponent's attack range, the best thing to do is walk, because then you have instant access to your shield.

So dancing right in front of your opponent is something I'd advise against

One thing you should keep in mind is to use trot dances mainly outside of their attacking distance, but be sure mix it up between you attacking and dancing to keep them guessing if you're approaching or not.
Admittedly you could just dance whenever you're out of their range but imo that's risky because again, the lack of shield, and, top of that, it's predictable
(Unless you're constantly using multiple different options but imo that's unnecessarily complicated)

Another application is avoiding long ranged attacks and being able to quickly punish
Basically:
Stand in range, dash out and dance back
???
Profit

The main strength of dancing is the ambiguity of it, but remember that standing still is a very strong option as well, it's just that dancing applies more obvious pressure.
(I advocate for a less dynamic style as it has more options and focuses less mind power on movement but dynamic playstyles are daunting once mastered)

 

[krazyzyko]

When you're dancing around your opponent and need to shield, do a PP and then shield, it's comes out quite fast.

PP > down tilt is a good way to cover that awkward area where you might whiff a smash.

PP foward > F tilt has great range and has more kill potential than a dash attack.

PP also covers the range of both an up angled F smash and a KO punch so it's a good way to recognize the spacing with it.

And of course PP > up tilt is his best approach option.

 

[Bleezyy]

Just use it to the point where it isn't interrupting the goal of the game and that is to get kills.
I see a ton of people pivoting and doing all the techy stuff and not get kills when they could have many times if they just moved regularly . Trust me on this. They help but they are not needed that much for little mac gameplay.

 

[Mini_Mac]

Just use it to the point where it isn't interrupting the goal of the game and that is to get kills.
I see a ton of people pivoting and doing all the techy stuff and not get kills when they could have many times if they just moved regularly . Trust me on this. They help but they are not needed that much for little mac gameplay.

Respectfully, I would have to disagree.

Both perfect pivoting and dash trotting are required to effectively play Mac especially at high levels. The purpose of both of these techniques are to maximize his spacing and consistently maintain stage control which is something a character with a terrible jump and a terrible recovery must have. Dash trotting (dash dancing) is especially important because it is able to play effective spacing mind games with your opponent and leave Mac less predictable in when he will approach which works out amazing for him because his approach options are minimal compared to a large majority of the cast because he needs to stay grounded in order to play effectively (he ain't no air fighter) so playing mind games with your opponent especially considering that Mac is one of the top 5 fastest runners in the game (he is #3) is a huge benefit for him especially against tougher MUs. It even helps him land things like grabs and dash attacks more consistently because of how it is able to confuse your opponent.

Perfect pivoting is just as important. Mac has the second longest pivot in the game only beaten by Captain Falcon and it is definitely a move that should be utilized in competative play. It is a beautiful approach tool when used with F-tilts and U-tilts.

Using it for F-tilts is good because inputting an F-tilt tbe firection you are moving in after a PP offers additional range to the move which is awesome because you're essentially extending the range of one of Mac's fastest and most potent kill moves.

Using it for U-tilts is a perfect strategy for racking up damage on your opponent when they are at low percents because it it deals almost 10% every hit, it comes out very fast, and it can combo into itself. In my personal opinion, it is the second best U-tilt in the game only beaten by Mario's U-tilt. Perfect pivoting makes it EVEN BETTER because the move alone has awesome range on both sides of Mac and above him giving yourself that extra distance and surprise your opponent. It is also one of Mac's best punishing methods at close range while your opponent is at low percents because of the amount of damage it can rack up and how well it is able to capitalize on whiffed/shielded moves. This is situational but sometimes if you're near the ledge and you see an opening, you can go for a PP U-tilt followed by an airdodge read and then BAM!!!! That's a stock. The U-tilt (PP U-tilt) is definitely a move that is to be respected because of it's combo potential, high damage output, and it's 50/50 smash attack option that can kill.

MAC IS FUN!!!!!

So yeah. Part of it is learning when to utilize it in specific MUs especially when considering when to use dash trotting. MUs like Mac against projectile characters like , , , and sometimes characters who have some sort of projectile like , , , , and can be difficult because you always want your shield to be ready and defend yourself from taking unnecesary damage from moves you see coming.