When is a roll appropriate?

[Bourg]

I've been watching a lot of tourney games recently and I noticed that only 3 or 4 rolls will be used in a game. I roll a ton and I know it's really punishable. I don't just want to make my new policy no rolls because it's clearly an important move in some scenarios. When is using a roll the right move?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

During pressure, usually when you're on the main platform of a stage, is a good time to consider rolling.

 

[CyberZixx]

Very good question. I notice many new players love rolling and use it as a clutch. It gets you across the stage in a relatively safe manner. Thing is if someone catches onto your rolls you can be punished. So using them in neutral is bad. I only like rolls as an desperate option to get out of a bad situation. Like potent shield pressure (think fox or falco) or to roll out of a corner. Even in these situations you can only roll sometimes as a mix up.

 

[Dott]

For me, never, roll it's something you have to evade because it gives your opponnent a chance to grab you or read you. If he play's smart he will reads your rolls and punish you over and over again.

Instead of rolls try to wavedash back, it's a speed move and gives you a punish window.

 

[Bourg]

@ Dott Even as Falcon? He's my main and his WD is so so short.

 

[Y-L]

@ Dott Even as Falcon? He's my main and his WD is so so short.

As Falcon you should try to dash dance instead although his WD can still be useful. He runs so damn fast that you can just run out of the area your opponent is trying to hit you from and then just run back and punish

 

[Celestis]

For me, never, roll it's something you have to evade because it gives your opponnent a chance to grab you or read you. If he play's smart he will reads your rolls and punish you over and over again.

Instead of rolls try to wavedash back, it's a speed move and gives you a punish window.

I don't think never is a good answer. You should never rule out an option. Wave dash is quicker, but not perfect. Your not invincible. Even if rolls are easier to read, everything is situation.

 

[Mera Mera]

Against a good Fox, Falco, Wolf, Lucario, and maybe Lucas, rolling is one of the better options you have to get out of their shield pressure. That said, most low to mid level players will probably not be good enough at shield pressure to warrant you rolling, so it depends on your opponents skill as well.

Aside from that, rolling is situational, but not useless. When someone aerials -> to instant jab, the jab/grab mix ups are dangerous and rolling is not an out of the question response (though not the go-to response either). You might also use it when someone commits to extended forward momentum, like when Ganon uses side b. If you react to the side B and don't have other better punish options (like dash away, dash back after the move is done, and hit him), then rolling can soft punish him by allowing you to steal center stage.

Rolling is out classed by other options more often by not, and a lot of low to mid level players overuse rolling by a lot, but it's an overstatement to say that you shouldn't roll.

Edit: That said, if you're just learning to roll less, putting the restriction of not rolling in matches is not a bad idea for the purpose of learning. You can always add rolling back into your game once you understand/get used to your other options (mostly dashing away, and sometimes wavedashing away).

 

[guedes the brawler]

when you need to evade something that a Wavedash won't help you evade?

 

[GP&B]

Pressure escape for characters that deal with it very poorly. WD OoS can be good for characters with lower jump startup if they don't have a good attacking OoS option to work with.

 

[Dott]

I don't think never is a good answer. You should never rule out an option. Wave dash is quicker, but not perfect. Your not invincible. Even if rolls are easier to read, everything is situation.

when you need to evade something that a Wavedash won't help you evade?

Then sidestep (dodge), roll works sometimes, but it's so risky that i don't see it as a available or good option if you want to be safe for your opponent.

But it's just my opinion, i mean, if you roll your opponent can simply go the place you're rolling and grab or connect a hit in the frame space between you end rolling and your invincibility ends... It needs a extremely precision of time, but it's possible.

 

[GP&B]

To be fair, that was an extremely hard read called before the roll even occurred. In most situations where you would actually roll, your opponent would already be on top of you and connecting hits with your shield where it's much safer to roll. Spot dodges under pressure generally fail if the opponent can keep stacking attacks on you. It's more for avoiding meatier attacks and grabs.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

That guy saw into the future LOOL

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I only really roll if I get a good read on my opponent using a move with long endlag. Other than that, it's a good out of shield option for characters with a good roll to relieve pressure, in particular I've got some mileage using it this way when playing as Pit.

 

[DrinkingFood]

"HUH?"

 

[Terotrous]

It's obviously going to depend on the character to some extent, as some rolls are much better than others. The shorter your total roll duration and the farther it goes, the safer it is to use for escaping pressure.

 

[MrHazuki]

For breakfast, or whenever you're hungry.