What's the deal with my Ness game?

[horizons889]

I main Fox and Ness. I've been playing Fox a lot more lately though. Anyways, my friend comes over pretty often to play smash. He's much better than me and I almost always lose. But the only times I win against him is if I go Ness. I'm curious as to why I can only win with Ness as opposed to my other main Fox or some of the other characters I mess around with - Meta knight, Ryu, yoshi, etc. I initially wanted to solely main Ness because I find his play style fits me well. I also understand his play style a lot more than the other characters.
But this boils down to the question - is this all because Ness is one of the easiest characters to pick up with? It's not like I spam some nooby attack with Ness to win. I make some sick plays such as getting a quick PK-thunder followed up into an up-air for the KO. I don't spam PK fire that much either. I find spacing and what not , I do best with Ness. By either my n-air or f-air. Anyways, the reason I strayed away from solely maining Ness was because of some things I've heard. Not only that he's easy but that he doesn't have a high skill ceiling or "depth" - which sounds to me like if I main him I won't improve my overall smash game as opposed to playing another character.
Finally, I've talked about this a lot before- but his recovery I heard can make him drop in the tier list (hopefully he won't go under high-mid tier?) Ultimately, I want to main Ness but I also wan't to be good and excel with him and not the only reason being that he's easy to use. I wan't to progress in my smash skills considering I'm relatively new to the game. I just hope Ness won't make me lag behind with my progress.

 

[Xermo]

Not only that he's easy but that he doesn't have a high skill ceiling or "depth" - which sounds to me like if I main him I won't improve

a high skill ceiling doesn't equate to depth of a character. Anyone who tells you ness lacks depth are only familiar with the FG flowchart and shaky's / nakat's bare-bones basic ness style.

but his recovery I heard can make him drop in the tier list

you should probably stay away from eventhubs.

I just hope Ness won't make me lag behind with my progress.

Ness is no easier to play than Mario. If you honestly believe picking up a character with an easier learning curve will hinder your overall growth as a player, then you're approaching the game with the wrong mentality. You aren't gimping yourself for attaining positive results using lesser technical characters than fox if you yourself already established that you know ness better than your other main(s). Ness simply has many more viable and easier to land kill options than a lot of other characters.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Ness has always fallen down the tier list in every Smash game, but it tends to be due to the metagame learning how to adjust to him, not just his bad recovery.
A Ness that lacks depth is predictable, therefore more likely to lose to someone that takes advantage of it.

 

[horizons889]

a high skill ceiling doesn't equate to depth of a character. Anyone who tells you ness lacks depth are only familiar with the FG flowchart and shaky's / nakat's bare-bones basic ness style.


you should probably stay away from eventhubs.


Ness is no easier to play than Mario. If you honestly believe picking up a character with an easier learning curve will hinder your overall growth as a player, then you're approaching the game with the wrong mentality. You aren't gimping yourself for attaining positive results using lesser technical characters than fox if you yourself already established that you know ness better than your other main(s). Ness simply has many more viable and easier to land kill options than a lot of other characters.

Thanks for the reply. So then I'll continue to main Ness. And yeah I've tried Mario and I don't do well with him or like his playstyle lol. Just some people on these forums make Ness out to sound like an extremely easy character with no depth. So the fact that I play him well means I've just put time into learning him over a lot of other characters? Also, to the guy above me for example is saying Ness usually drops in the tier lists in other smash games. If he does how low will he drop? Will he drop as low as he did in brawl or melee? As long as he stays top 15 I'll be happy.
I know his recovery isn't the best and blah blah blah, but people also are saying that "there aren't a lot of top level Ness players, but they're definitely a lot of them at tournaments?" I guess this was said due to people thinking he doesn't have a high skill ceiling. But then why do I still see a lot of top level Ness mains like Nakat, FOW, Coney? By that logic, are they just going to quit Ness to win tournaments at high level because hes going to "suck"?

 

[EnhaloTricks]

I feel like you're asking a lot of the "wrong" questions.

They're not going to quit Ness unless they want to, which is important. They're the ones currently making Ness look good (aside from regional Ness mains that do good in regions). Ness is good in this game and that's that. He's already dropped a bit on the tier list ifrc. I think he was put top 5 at the beginning of the year, but now most people put him in top 10 mainly. I can't see him dropping below that because he has so many good tools. If anything, he might go up ever so slightly as we learn the MUs better (specifically Rosa, whom I believe is 6-4 at worst).

Picking a character with a high skill ceiling isn't going to make your smash fundamentals better. Sheik has a high skill ceiling with LOTS of tech, but knowing all of her tech won't help you if you play someone else. The opposite is true, ime. Playing a low tier and getting results with them will help smash fundamentals more because you're forced to do high-level gameplay with very few options.

I love Ness, and I think most of us here do, too. If you enjoy playing him keep playing him. Focus less on what others' think of you and how they perceive you. If you think we got it bad, at least we're not receiving the kind of hate Sonic and Rosa mains do (but they know what they're doing... they know VERY well).

 

[SirShadows]

Easy to pick up, hard to master. Maybe your friend has a tough time with the specific matchup, or doesn't know how to handle him.

 

[Zanarkan]

I play ness as a secondary and I agree with everyone here pretty much. Especially that you should play a character because you like the character, are good with a character, or the character fits your play style. It doesn't matter what your friends, the community, or the tier lists say. The reasons they give some have merit, some don't. Yes Ness is easy to pick up, he is not easy to play, and he has more depth than most people give him credit for. As far as the tier list goes, his recovery will always keep him from being in the top tier of characters, aside from that, aside from any blatant flaws, all tier list adjustments happen due to meta shifts. Keep in mind there are not a lot of top ness players making waves at big tournaments. If more people pick up ness and start turning heads he could move up in the list, at the same time more people playing him, means more people learn how to play against him so he could go down in the tier list. ANYWAY.... TLDR tier lists don't mean **** especially in this smash game where there are so many characters. If you like Ness, and you play well with Ness, PLAY NESS. Don't worry what the world around you thinks about it.