Whats left?

[BronzeGreekGod]

So the PMDT have done almost everything ive ever thought of that needed fixing in brawl. So i'm thinking the next steps besides more characters would be improving final smash mechanics. Like perhaps being able to set final smashes on, off or "final smash meter". So you can get a final smash via a super meter. And also, putting some work into balancing the final smashes.

One other thing (but not as likely) i was thinking is if they could code a replay function when pausing the game (or even after matches) where you can pause rewind and slow down the footage so you can really see whats going on in some crazy brawls where ur like wtf just happened!?

thoughts?

 

[Narpas_sword]

They keep fixing things i didnt know i wanted.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

ya tell me about it. I mean i thought of lots of the things they did and posted ideas on the forums, but they took everything several steps further! Its amazing. Hopefully they can do what i mentioned here too

oh another possibility now.. the changes they made to ganondorf are quite drastic.. perhaps more ganondorf changes in the future?!?

 

[Smearglangelo]

I never thought that Brawl ever needed "fixing" aside from the questionable inclusion of tripping.

The new changes have gotten me excited though! It makes me wonder if the PMDT are going to dig a little deeper and change the core mechanics of the game.

Aerial grabs would be an awesome and would add new depth to each character! It would require a bit of tweaking if they did decide to add something like that...

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I constantly had issues with brawl and theyve fixed everything. Aerial grabs could be cool though!

 

[Celestis]

The replay thing would not be possible because there is no replay footage to rewind. The replays we see are the game recording and replaying button inputs. Replays are basically a fresh match with just the same button inputs put in each time. So rewinding that is impossible since... There is nothing to rewind.

 

[wiiztec]

"Rewinding" is not necessarily impossible just because something is not video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsRIOvu82Og

 

[JOE!]

Pm 3.6 & knuckles is still left

 

[Shadow Light Master]

I seriously want Knuckles. If it's buff Knuckles, even better.

 

[Paquito]

I've always wanted to see items balanced such that all items have counter-play, and the randomness is controlled so it can be taken into account into a player's strategy.

One or all of these changes would be huge (the last one is a must have)

- Set locations for items to drop on every level
- A heads up that an item is about to drop
- Preventing explosive items from being triggered the moment they spawn (No more: "Ahh, a bo-bomb spawned in front of me mid-smash!")

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I've always wanted to see items balanced such that all items have counter-play, and the randomness is controlled so it can be taken into account into a player's strategy.

One or all of these changes would be huge (the last one is a must have)

- Set locations for items to drop on every level
- A heads up that an item is about to drop
- Preventing explosive items from being triggered the moment they spawn (No more: "Ahh, a bo-bomb spawned in front of me mid-smash!")

But, that would get rid of the chaos, which is supposed to be an essential of Smash.

It's impossible to predict everything.

And as for this topic, well, the only thing I want are different Renders, Portraits, and Select Screen.

...that and the Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Boondocker]

I would like more rpg elements. Custom movesets would be nice, but sm4sh already has them.

 

[Paquito]

But, that would get rid of the chaos, which is supposed to be an essential of Smash.

That's an essential of Smash party-play, but it hurts the competitive experience (not that I don't enjoy the former, it'd be nice if this suggested item mode could be toggled on or off). There's a lot of interesting gameplay that we lose by turning items off completely, including:

- Two types of catching with different risks & rewards (air-dodge catching vs z-catching in the air/a-catching on the ground)

- Deflecting items back at enemies with perfect shielding

- Taking advantage of vulnerabilities enemies have when holding various items

etc.

 

[Toon612Link]

How about they fix the screen when you start Project M that looks like your about to play a creepypasta game.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

But, that would get rid of the chaos, which is supposed to be an essential of Smash.

It's impossible to predict everything.

And as for this topic, well, the only thing I want are different Renders, Portraits, and Select Screen.

...that and the Pokemon Trainer.

But most ppl play with items off because of the chaos

 

[Szion]

I'd love for them to focus on the clone character engine thing. Even if NONE of the characters I want in make it i'll be happy that they're adding to the roster.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

But most ppl play with items off because of the chaos

This. When I want to play competitively I just turn items off. When I turn items on it's because I want to have a wacky chaotic match with friends. It's hilarious when a bomb spawns in front of someone doing an attack, as long as it's in a match that's only for fun. Items aren't meant to be competitive, and they should stay that way. That's why they're fun. You also have to keep in mind that not everyone who plays PM is super competitive. Some people just like the speed of the game more or something else.

On as side note, It would be nice if I could still use my B move when I have a Smash Ball. Give us a different button or buttons to push like A+B. Though I guess even that could limit Lucario.

 

[Paquito]

Items aren't meant to be competitive, and they should stay that way.

This is exactly how the director of Melee felt, which is why Brawl turned out the way it did. By that logic, no one should have ever created Project M

You also have to keep in mind that not everyone who plays PM is super competitive. Some people just like the speed of the game more or something else.

I know. I mentioned in my last post that it'd be nice to have these some/all of these item settings togglable.

 

[Foo]

There is absolutely no way to make items good for competitive play. Their only purpose for for whacky chaotic games (thus party games).

Just thank Kneesus that you can turn them off.

(how would you even attempt to remove the chaos from items? Even non rng stuff like homerun bat and mr. saturns cause chaos.)

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

This is exactly how the director of Melee felt, which is why Brawl turned out the way it did. By that logic, no one should have ever created Project M



I know. I mentioned in my last post that it'd be nice to have these some/all of these item settings togglable.

That's not even the same the same thing. There's a difference between "Smash should be non competitive and completely random and crazy" and "Items should remain remain random and crazy because they offer a way of playing that's different from the core competitive game."

 

[Jevedor]

- Smash Attack balancing would be stellar.
- A character specific smash meter that builds up would be boss especially in stamina/turbo modes.
- New characters from the clone engine, if its just something that lets you drop your own PSA into an extra character slot.
- Item balancing, so pretty much this

- Set locations for items to drop on every level
- A heads up that an item is about to drop
- Preventing explosive items from being triggered the moment they spawn (No more: "Ahh, a bo-bomb spawned in front of me mid-smash!")

and dreaming big here but find some way to allow the custom maps builder to be used again.

 

[Paquito]

(how would you even attempt to remove the chaos from items? Even non rng stuff like homerun bat and mr. saturns cause chaos.)

Define what you mean by "chaos"?

That's not even the same the same thing. There's a difference between "Smash should be non competitive and completely random and crazy" and "Items should remain remain random and crazy because they offer a way of playing that's different from the core competitive game."

How would you feel if these settings where options that could be activated, similar to how we can choose to turn items off altogether now?

 

[Foo]

Define what you mean by "chaos"?

*insert dictionary defintion of chaos*

Items are inherently inbalanced, as they are intended to be just that. Removing RNG entirely from items would change the game into halo (power weapons) and having them spawn at random times in random places (even with indication) completely removes the idea of stage control, positioning and advantage because at any point a beam sword could appear and change EVERYTHING

 

[Paquito]

having them spawn at random times in random places (even with indication) completely removes the idea of stage control, positioning and advantage because at any point a beam sword could appear and change EVERYTHING

One or all of these changes would be huge (the last one is a must have)

- Set locations for items to drop on every level

 

[Smearglangelo]

How would you feel if these settings where options that could be activated, similar to how we can choose to turn items off altogether now?

Are you saying that instead of the item settings changing the quantity of items it would change the balance of the items instead?

That sounds really interesting! But couldn't players just camp the set item spawn locations?

 

[Foo]

Let's just keep quoting our old posts back and forth rather than respond to the points our opposition made!

Removing RNG entirely from items would change the game into halo (power weapons)

 

[Smearglangelo]

Let's just keep quoting our old posts back and forth rather than respond to the points our opposition made!

I just wanted your opinion Foo, but thanks for the sass.

I love it!

 

[Foo]

I love it!

The first time it wasn't sass. That, however, was actually sass.

 

[Paquito]

Let's just keep quoting our old posts back and forth rather than respond to the points our opposition made!

A key part of your objection was the notion that items can spawn *anywhere*, which is something I already addressed, so I pointed that out.

Are you saying that instead of the item settings changing the quantity of items it would change the balance of the items instead?

Well, I was thinking the switch would be for turning on set locations for items, and\or item warnings. If it were possible to turn item balance changes on/off, that'd be cool too, but I don't think it'd be as important.

That sounds really interesting! But couldn't players just camp the set item spawn locations?

Restricting your movement around the arena to try to stay in one area is effectively handicapping yourself. Any character that can effectively compete by camping in one area is probably already doing so on the safest part of any arena.

Plus, if there are notifications that an item is coming, it shifts the game play to players trying to fight for positioning at the spawn area before the item spawns, which adds some depth to the gameplay.

 

[King Bee]

Removing RNG entirely from items would change the game into halo (power weapons)

Am I crazy if I think that sounds like a cool addition as a little side novelty? Like one or two really big maps with fixed, timed item spawns where the game turns into something like 2D Quake? Obviously not as something meant to be competitive, just a fun party Smash mode like Turbo or the new Stamina mode.

 

[Foo]

Am I crazy if I think that sounds like a cool addition as a little side novelty? Like one or two really big maps with fixed, timed item spawns where the game turns into something like 2D Quake? Obviously not as something meant to be competitive, just a fun party Smash mode like Turbo or the new Stamina mode.

Yeah, absolutely. As long as it's a little side-mode kinda like allstar or turbo mode, go nuts. Just give me the option to turn it off, AND the option to play with normal items. I'm only disagreeing with him because he seems to be claiming he can make items balanced and good for competitive play, and seems to want to make all items like this.

As long as PM fits on SD card, I couldn't care less how many optional bells and whistles gets added because it won't change how I play it, and won't change how it's played at tournies.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Define what you mean by "chaos"?



How would you feel if these settings where options that could be activated, similar to how we can choose to turn items off altogether now?

So choosing between say set spawn or random spawn? Of course I wouldn't have a problem with that. I just want the fun randomness of items to be in tact, but adding an option that makes them more predictable wouldn't take away from the random mode existing. Now whether having different item "modes" is even possible is another question.

 

[muleet]

I heard that the places where items spawn are fixed on each maps. But if this could be changed, it would be nice to have an option to make them automatically appear precisly between the players. (Only in 1v1, maybe.)

 

[red9rd]

I'm just gonna copy and paste this here

The same nonsense crap i have been posting in speculation threads since pre 3.0 (yes I know some of this stuff has been added, but I didn't want to edit my old speculation post,)

-Lucas Osohe dance Taunt/ victory pose
-Lucas pulling needle out of the ground Taunt
-Olimar carried by Pikmin Taunt/ victory pose
-Mario Mario64 crawl
-1 to 5/6 player .VS
-old items from past Smash games
-old Pokemon from past Smash games
-choice to pick between the classic version of a stage and and the Project M version
-The ability to have story mode enemy's to appear in vs mode (like how it was in Melee.)
-more options for stamina mode
- Gannon with mullet
-online Project M servers with more options and modes
-cross play between Wii/WiiU and PC
-recreation of the first Melee Adventure stage

 

[nullife]

I, for one, would be disappointed if they changed mechanics drastically. I think they should keep doing what they're doing now: Balance changes and more content like more game modes/skins/possibly characters.

 

[Leafeon]

Aerial grabs would be an awesome and would add new depth to each character! It would require a bit of tweaking if they did decide to add something like that...

Switch your main to Lucario.

 

[Paquito]

I'm only disagreeing with him because he seems to be claiming he can make items balanced and good for competitive play, and seems to want to make all items like this.

Based on your post, I'm guessing you believe the presence of randomness means something can't be considered competitive. I'm about to argue that it's possible to have randomness in competitive play. But before I do, given how easily people fly off the handle, let me make it clear what I'm not arguing:

I am NOT suggesting that itemless tournament play be replaced with tournaments that use items.

K. Now, two examples of randomness in competitive games:

Texas Hold'Em poker. That entire game is centered around randomness. There's no way to predict what cards will show up in anyone's hand or the common card pile. But it's possible to be highly skilled at that game, and consistently win at that game, by understanding the probabilities in the game, and betting big when the odds are in your favor.

MOBAs like DOTA2 and League Of Legends. They have a ranking system that calculates your personal rank based on games you've played with a random set of teammates and opponents, and you have no control over the actions of your teammates. Even in that situation, good players are able to rise up in ranks, over the course of many games.

In games that feature randomness, an important skill-set is understanding what possible situations you may run into, and what the best decisions are in those situations. It is very much possible to balance items such that, even if random items appear at random intervals, matches are still won based on the skills of the players.

 

[Cpt.]

So the PMDT have done almost everything ive ever thought of that needed fixing in brawl. So i'm thinking the next steps besides more characters would be improving final smash mechanics. Like perhaps being able to set final smashes on, off or "final smash meter". So you can get a final smash via a super meter. And also, putting some work into balancing the final smashes.

One other thing (but not as likely) i was thinking is if they could code a replay function when pausing the game (or even after matches) where you can pause rewind and slow down the footage so you can really see whats going on in some crazy brawls where ur like wtf just happened!?

thoughts?

What's left is most likely just balancing and more costumes! Yay costumes!

A balanced final smash mechanic would be awesome though.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I really think they'll be doing more work on game mechanics like final smashes (if they haven't already). And ya more costumes and characters obviously. But the work they've done on gdorf gives me some hope on him getting more changes made to his moveset in the future as well

 

[Zarxrax]

I would like to see a much expanded training mode that would help you train on specific situations, like edge guarding, recovery, etc. Maybe something where you can set a spawn location for both yourself and the opponent, and keep resetting to that same position. And also a way to make the enemy do certain moves, or record a set of inputs.