What techniques come first when starting w/ Marth?

[Sandbag Main]

I'm a totally new player to the competitive Melee scene. Always played it casually, until discovering how fluid top level melee play logs and how much fun it seems to be. Long story short, me and 5 other people make up the totally new Marth mains of our school. And like any new players, we're getting bodied.

So we'd like to get a consensus on how to approach learning fundamentals, with a focus on what's effective for Marth. We at least know of almost all the basic level tech, such as wavedashing and L-cancelling, but we're at a loss on where to start. Does anybody have any opinions on an "order" to prioritize learning the more advanced aspects of Marth's gameplay?
For example, would it be more effective to be able to consistently short hop or wavedash, dash-dance or chain grab, L-cancel or fast fall, etc..?

 

[SSS]

I'm a totally new player to the competitive Melee scene. Always played it casually, until discovering how fluid top level melee play logs and how much fun it seems to be. Long story short, me and 5 other people make up the totally new Marth mains of our school. And like any new players, we're getting bodied.

So we'd like to get a consensus on how to approach learning fundamentals, with a focus on what's effective for Marth. We at least know of almost all the basic level tech, such as wavedashing and L-cancelling, but we're at a loss on where to start. Does anybody have any opinions on an "order" to prioritize learning the more advanced aspects of Marth's gameplay?
For example, would it be more effective to be able to consistently short hop or wavedash, dash-dance or chain grab, L-cancel or fast fall, etc..?

First off, welcome! Game is good, etc.

Second off, make sure you know all of your moves. This sounds kinda dumb but it's just basic level stuff. Jab, utilt/ftilt/dtilt, dash attack, usmash/fsmash/dsmash, nair/uair/fair/bair/dair, nspecial/uspecial/sspecial/dspecial, grab, uthrow/dthrow/fthrow/bthrow. Then also learn all of your options from the ledge, options when teching, etc.

Short hop is like hella basic. Like Shorthopping and Utilting without usmashing/jumping are just like so basic that you need to get those.

Fast-falling isn't too hard, but I'd say it's the next thing you should learn just because it has several obvious applications.

Teching and techchasing are soooo important please learn these immediately.

L-canceling is a no-brainer. It's not as "popular" as wavedashing but it's sooo important.

Learn how to do Jump-cancel Grabs (so that you don't do the gross dash grab and can instead do the infinitely better standing grab from a run), then Jump-cancel Usmash (even tho it's less important for Marth).

Next is dash-dancing/wavedashing. They're both important, especially for Marth. For wavedashing, make sure you can also waveland onto platforms and stuff. For dash-dancing, make sure you can accurately change the length of the dashes. The short Brawl dash-dances don't actually do anything. You need the long ones.

Chain-grabbing and stuff are just matchup-specific techniques that will come later.

Just watch people and play people and talk to people and you'll get better. I'm not a Marth main, so this is all pretty basic stuff, but it should point you in a semi-correct direction. Experiment, explore, play to get better, learn your character, play Melee, Melee is good, Melee is the only game worth playing.

<3 <3 <3 MELEE4LYFE <3 <3 <3

 

[AirFair]

Basically the above lol. Go look up the advanced how to play video by Wak, and learn all of that if you haven't
JC grabs are important, so learn those too
Marth's Dasdhance is really good, so that's a big thing as well. Mixing it up with wavedashes looks good.
Learn how to use your moves, and grabs. You can get good followups from grabs. Study some matches too. A good player to watch would be PPMD's Marth, or Mew2King.

 

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

Dash Dancing as both give Marth a bit more speed, mobility and unpredictability. Plus Dash Dancing is generally one of the easier advanced techniques to do with Marth after a bit of practice imho.

After that you should learn how to Wavedash as that increases Marth's mobility. Make sure you learn all variations of Wavedashing such as: Normal Wavedashing, Wavedashing out of your shield, Wavelanding onto a platform. You want to make sure these three skills are extremely consistent before doing anything else.

Next is obviously short hopping and fast falling. Short hopping is not that hard with Marth, but it will take a precise button press. Fast Falling is simple, hold down the controller stick at the peak of your jump. After that is L-Canceling. You basically need L-Cancling with Marth or else you can't do crazy combos and the lag at the end of the moves (If you don't L-Cancel) will result in your opponent throwing out a strong move or grabbing you.

Now combine Short Hops, Fast Falls and L-Cancling to do a SHFFL. The inputs for, say Marth's Neutral-Air would be
. SHFFLs will allow you to quickly attack your opponents and weave around them aswell as doing crazy combos.

I guess next on the list would be to learn how to do Techs. Those are basically when you press or a certain amount of frames before you hit the ground. Instead of falling to the ground with lag, you either jump back up in place, or you can move the controller stick or to roll either way.

Next on the list would be things like Chain-Grabbing, Pivoting, Jump-Canceled Grabs, Tech Chasing or learning combos.

Here are a few links to some videos or other useful threads that may be helpful either now or down the road.
http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-marth-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285324/
http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/
http://smashboards.com/threads/technical-things.283211/#post-10954335
http://smashboards.com/threads/marth-tech-guide-resource-list-its-back.375984/

Also welcome to Smashboards! I'm a fellow Marth main aswell so if you have some other questions, I might be able to help

 

[SSS]

I guess next on the list would be to learn how to do Techs. Those are basically when you press or a certain amount of frames before you hit the ground. Instead of falling to the ground with lag, you either jump back up in place, or you can move the controller stick or to roll either way.

I believe you need to press it within 20 frames (1/3 of a second) before hitting the ground.

It's also important to remember that you can't just mash L or R, since when you miss a tech you can't tech again for 60 frames (1 full second). So if you do miss one tech don't keep trying to tech, since even if you time it correctly, if it's inside that 60 frame window it'll count as a missed tech and start the counter over again.

I guess I'll let you know your teching options.

Neutral Tech
Tech Left
Tech Right
No Tech

It's important to mix these up. It might initially seem like No Tech is a bad option, but that isn't true, especially when you're being actively techchased. After No Tech, you have another branch of options.

Normal Get-up
Get-up Attack
Roll Left
Roll Right

After not teching, though, you can be "Jab Reset", which is where they jab you and it forces a Normal Get-up. This means a Puff can jab reset you into Rest, or a Sheik can jab reset you into regrab, etc. Note that not all jabs reset. It has something to do with the strength of the jab, the damage % of the character being jab resetted, and that character's weight. Marth's jab almost always resets. Falco's pretty much never resets, however, his lasers do.