What Samus Tech Are You Working On?

[Afro Smash]

I'm currently working on:
Tether drop aerials back on to the stage
Nair Oos (for more horizontal approaches that Up B cant cover)
Short Hop Airdodge retreats + approaches
Close range zair combos

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Ways to consistently land Up Smash.
I hate that it whiffs after landing the first hit. I hate it that Mii Gunner has the exact same Up Smash and it's way better than Samus'.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm really focusing on rising short hop airdodge completely replacing my rolls. Retreats, advances, spacing, fakeouts and the very good nair->tilt and bair->tilt combos that line up perfecty out of it. This is really hard, I'm an old dog and new tricks are fun, but habits are hard to break...

For edgeguard I'm learning the reverse-charge shot run-off fakeout and a bomb variation of my own which works quite well. Placing a bomb right at the very edge so it will hit them if they stay latched on or try a ledge attack and then covering the roll and jump options with a stage-facing up-tilt. If they a simply rise and shield - reverse charge shot shield break.

For recovering from the ledge the stage cancelled f-air.

@ MegaBlaster1234 Up-smash is really a damage move in my opinion, aside from specific matchups. It's really very good in an up-tilt or d-air combo. If you want to lock any character in it, you must have their hurtbox on your arm - not the explosion. Only certain characters does it lock at the explosion tip - see my combo video and notice the difference between how I hit diddy vs. DDD.

 

[Highgarden]

Bomb combos

 

[Xygonn]

Short hopped either reversed charge shot or RAR SH charge shot against opponent on the ledge just as they are losing invincibility. I want it to skim the stage to basically cover all standard options (stay on ledge, jump, getup, roll). I was totally inspired by KayJay's great kills with this.

 

[Green Kirby]

Bomb recovery back to stage constantly as well as trying to integrate more grapple into my game style

 

[Boney]

I really need to start consistently landing stage cancelled fairs. It's such a good tool for get ups.
I also need to start using charge shot a lot more in aerial combos, I'm used to saving it for punishing stuff and edgeguarding rather than damage racking when some situations arise.

 

[RoachCake]

B-air Jab Lock setups against grounded opponents.
ILWJ N-air/F-air.
Clipping CS into the stage from a short hop.
Offstage Reverse CS > Footstool, along with other disrespectful offstage shenanigans.

 

[Green Kirby]

Can you DI up while airdodging like Melee? Just thinking about how you air dodge to grapple on ledge in Melee.

 

[Xygonn]

B-air Jab Lock setups against grounded opponents.
ILWJ N-air/F-air.
Clipping CS into the stage from a short hop.
Offstage Reverse CS > Footstool, along with other disrespectful offstage shenanigans.

Is the ILWJ Nair/Fair for ledge play? Interesting concept. I guess it gives you more follow up options than releasing and jumping to a bair since it conserves your jump... Would love to see an offstage string using this as a starter after a trump.

Can you DI up while airdodging like Melee? Just thinking about how you air dodge to grapple on ledge in Melee.

No, air dodges lock you into your current trajectory in smash 4. But you can cancel your airdodge with a zair during the dodge.

 

[Boney]

Sorry to ask, but what is ILWJ?

 

[Xygonn]

Sorry to ask, but what is ILWJ?

I usually just call it "instant wall jump" but it stands for instant ledge wall jump. It's where you release the ledge then IMMEDIATELY smash your stick back into the ledge. This makes you wall jump, where a normal wall jump you push away from the wall while against the wall. For Samus this is a getup option. You can ILWJ into a bair back onto the stage for example. It is also useful for ledge play. The timing is very strict and it's hard to pull off in online matches.

Video here:

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

I'm really focusing on rising short hop airdodge completely replacing my rolls. Retreats, advances, spacing, fakeouts and the very good nair->tilt and bair->tilt combos that line up perfecty out of it.

I've been working on this as well, and still am, and from what I've experienced, it eliminates a lot of Samus's roll problems while retaining the same effect, as well as giving more options. OoS SH air dodging is less predictable than rolling. OoS SH bombs replace rolling just as well, as your hurt box becomes almost impossible small as well as surprisingly mobile. And it creates a nice little hit box that your opponent has to respect, or else.

 

[RoachCake]

Is the ILWJ Nair/Fair for ledge play? Interesting concept. I guess it gives you more follow up options than releasing and jumping to a bair since it conserves your jump... Would love to see an offstage string using this as a starter after a trump.

Yeah it is. I'm not too amazing onstage with Samus so I mostly practice offstage and ledge tactics to make up for that.
I haven't landed either on an actual player yet, but I believe N-air could possibly gimp some characters or lead into a CS or setup a D-air when they try to recover. F-air might be able to gimp as well if you Fast Fall it.

 

[Xygonn]

Yeah it is. I'm not too amazing onstage with Samus so I mostly practice offstage and ledge tactics to make up for that.
I haven't landed either on an actual player yet, but I believe N-air could possibly gimp some characters or lead into a CS or setup a D-air when they try to recover. F-air might be able to gimp as well if you Fast Fall it.

Total theory craft, but ilwj -> uair -> cs should work.

 

[IsmaR]

You need to DI like a mother for that to work. Also works better on larger characters.

I also regularly make use of N-air for gimps. The back hit is even funnier since most people airdodge/get hit out of it anyway.

 

[Afro Smash]

just before this I was workng on adding wall jumps to my game for bairs on to the stage and added time to edgeguard, i feel ive got it down now, and i can land LCS pretty consistently when the opportunity presents itself.

Still forget to pummel though on grabs though, sorry @ Xygonn :[

 

[S.P.A.D.]

Personally I'm attempting to work on missiles. I have nearly no idea how to effectively use them outside of starting an offensive. Also trying to figure out how to use Z-Air to recover instead of a free F-Air...

 

[DungeonMaster]

Personally I'm attempting to work on missiles. I have nearly no idea how to effectively use them outside of starting an offensive.

It's a good point that we don't have a thread yet dedicated to missiles and their uses. I think the veterans of previous versions looked at their speed distribution, which feels just wrong rather than just right, the lack of cancelling and instantly wrote them (and Samus) off.
No wall of hitboxes = poor zoning = not good character goes the logic.
There are a few matchups, very few, where they really can still serve that purpose (DDD comes to mind) but really their role has changed to a dramatic secondary to the charge shot in my opinion.
Missiles right now I feel are to bait a reflector/absorber/counter or a dodge, to stuff speedy horizontal and high recoveries (say fox) into lower recoveries. They are essential to Samus' own recovery against characters that sit on the ledge and wait to smash attack you in your own recovery (villager, mac). And they are counter spam (Link). I'm sure other people have found plenty of uses, we should probably have a dedicated thread.

 

[S.P.A.D.]

That sounds like a good plan. So essentially they're more utility now instead of defensive?

 

[Afro Smash]

Depends on the match up, against characters like shiek and falcon theyre far too laggy to be used defensively, but against slow characters like ganon and Robin they can be

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

Stage canceled F-airs, and super missle planking.

 

[E.Lopez]

I'm really just trying to get reverse charge shots to work, is my main goal. I just can't seem to pull it off consistently no matter how much I practice.

 

[Grambles]

I'm really just trying to get reverse charge shots to work, is my main goal. I just can't seem to pull it off consistently no matter how much I practice.

If it helps, try to think of it as a musical rhythm. The clacking of the stick, back to neutral and then hitting B lines up really evenly. If you`re doing it right, it should sound/feel almost like a pleasant gallop. I dunno, that's how I've always felt it out. It's easier to judge shot timing like that too

 

[Fluidityt]

oos shair dodge instead of rolling (got the regular one down but not oos)
plankz
not doing Fsmash instead of tilt (especially when doing ftilt n opposite directon)

 

[Xygonn]

oos shair dodge instead of rolling (got the regular one down but not oos)
plankz
not doing Fsmash instead of tilt (especially when doing ftilt n opposite directon)

You gotta set your stick to tilts. With A+B smash being a thing now, you'll never f up either (if you put in the practice for muscle memory). Use stick for tilts and A+B for smashes. I did this so I would stop accidentally usmashing and dsmashing when going for the tilts. Also, when playing my secondary (villager), it's super necessary for retreating aerials. For Samus it also lets you do crossed up SHAD bairs while pushing all the way forward.

 

[E.Lopez]

If it helps, try to think of it as a musical rhythm. The clacking of the stick, back to neutral and then hitting B lines up really evenly. If you`re doing it right, it should sound/feel almost like a pleasant gallop. I dunno, that's how I've always felt it out. It's easier to judge shot timing like that too

You know what, this actually does help a bit! Your suggestion made me realize a difference between using the Wii U Pro Controller and the GCN pad in that you don't get the pronounced 'clacking' with the Pro Controller like you do with the GCN pad.

I've been playing with the Pro Controller for a long time, so I switched to the GCN controller and I feel like my reverse shots are more consistent now.

Another reason I am now going to GCN controller is I find it easier to use the c-stick for tilts compared to the Pro Controller since the GCN controller sticks have the eight grooves for the exact positions, whereas the completely circular movement of the Pro Controller sticks meant I was messing up my directional inputs (for example, I try to d-air but Samus will n-air instead).

Question: What did you mean by 'it's easier to judge shot timing like that too?'

You gotta set your stick to tilts. With A+B smash being a thing now, you'll never f up either (if you put in the practice for muscle memory). Use stick for tilts and A+B for smashes. I did this so I would stop accidentally usmashing and dsmashing when going for the tilts. Also, when playing my secondary (villager), it's super necessary for retreating aerials. For Samus it also lets you do crossed up SHAD bairs while pushing all the way forward.

I saw that A+B option when I went to my control scheme recently and was wondering how that would be useful. You just gave me an answer. With the A+B option, does that mean if you want to u-smash or d-smash, you just have to tilt + (A+B)?

 

[Xygonn]

You know what, this actually does help a bit! Your suggestion made me realize a difference between using the Wii U Pro Controller and the GCN pad in that you don't get the pronounced 'clacking' with the Pro Controller like you do with the GCN pad.

I've been playing with the Pro Controller for a long time, so I switched to the GCN controller and I feel like my reverse shots are more consistent now.

Another reason I am now going to GCN controller is I find it easier to use the c-stick for tilts compared to the Pro Controller since the GCN controller sticks have the eight grooves for the exact positions, whereas the completely circular movement of the Pro Controller sticks meant I was messing up my directional inputs (for example, I try to d-air but Samus will n-air instead).

Question: What did you mean by 'it's easier to judge shot timing like that too?'



I saw that A+B option when I went to my control scheme recently and was wondering how that would be useful. You just gave me an answer. With the A+B option, does that mean if you want to u-smash or d-smash, you just have to tilt + (A+B)?

Yes, that is exactly what it means.

 

[Fluidityt]

UPDATE: So the right stick as tilt is good, since I never use it for smash anyways.

I'll have to check this out. Been playing since 64, so gcn has been my controller of choice. But the triggers on the gamepad / pro controller were *so* much better that I switched over. I sometimes pull out the GCN but can't get used to the trigger buttons (i use L for shield and R for grab, on GCN I use L shield and X grab)

Plus, the way I short hop nair, fair is by sliding fingers from x to a on gamepad, and use the right stick for uair and dair. Then I slide y to b for upBoos or SHCS. This is a lot harder to do on a GCN as you can't really slide and have to press the buttons, so I end up doing a full jump or mistiming my aerial.

That, and I play most of my smash on the gamepad, since the TV situation in my place isn't really ideal. Yes, I have used the Gamepad as a TV and then used a wiimote + fake GCN XD


I'll have to play around with this stuff though. I've not had as much problem with the Usmash as I did in the past (since I don't have tap to jump) but the Fsmash still comes out every once in a while.

 

[Xygonn]

UPDATE: So the right stick as tilt is good, since I never use it for smash anyways.

I'll have to check this out. Been playing since 64, so gcn has been my controller of choice. But the triggers on the gamepad / pro controller were *so* much better that I switched over. I sometimes pull out the GCN but can't get used to the trigger buttons (i use L for shield and R for grab, on GCN I use L shield and X grab)

Plus, the way I short hop nair, fair is by sliding fingers from x to a on gamepad, and use the right stick for uair and dair. Then I slide y to b for upBoos or SHCS. This is a lot harder to do on a GCN as you can't really slide and have to press the buttons, so I end up doing a full jump or mistiming my aerial.

That, and I play most of my smash on the gamepad, since the TV situation in my place isn't really ideal. Yes, I have used the Gamepad as a TV and then used a wiimote + fake GCN XD


I'll have to play around with this stuff though. I've not had as much problem with the Usmash as I did in the past (since I don't have tap to jump) but the Fsmash still comes out every once in a while.

I also find it is easier to SHAD OoS easier with L and LZ both set to shield and switching from one to the other (sliding down from L to LZ right as I SH) instead of releasing and repressing L or LZ. I have RZ (the lower one) set to jump and R set to grab.

 

[Grambles]

Question

: What did you mean by 'it's easier to judge shot timing like that too?

Oh, I just meant for timing reverse CSs, it was easier if I imagined the rhythm in my head in the beginning. Especially if I was going to be ledge dropping.

I really wish there was a hybrid of the Pro controller and the GCN. I also had problems with the lack of notches, and c-stick placement. The shoulder buttons on the pro controller are so much better, and I find perfect pivoting a lot easier on it too. Almost tempted to do some controller modding.

On topic though, I'm working on SHAD OoS. It's insanely hard to get used to remapping the buttons when they've been ingrained in your head for 15 years.

 

[leiraD]

Using single jab instead of multi-jab, getting down-angled f-tilts at high percent, falling u-air into u-special, mixing up dash attack with grabs, mixing up running past and pivot tilting/pivot grabbing.