What is the purpose of tiers?

[walsh]

Out of curiosity,

Why do people spend so much time making these? Do they serve any other purpose other than giving people preconceived notions of how overpowered/underpowered characters are? I can understand the logic of a matchup chart, as it shows who is weaker against which characters, but hasn't Isai shown us that even that doesn't mean much? Shouldn't a true tier look like this?


(S) Tier

Players who know all the crazy tricks/combos AND can read their opponents and adjust their strategy accordingly.

(A) Tier

Players who can read their opponents and adjust their strategy accordingly.

(B) Tier

Players who know all the crazy tricks/combos.

(C) Tier

Everyone else

 

[t3h Icy]

Yes, but lower tiers are harder to win with in most matches.

 

[StealthECartman]

A tier list is a representation of how many pros (character strengths, advantages in matchups) in relation to how many cons they have, in relation to other characters in the game...nothing more really. And yes your point about experience being more important than character strength is true, but don't you think there's a reason you can beat a player better than you with pika/fox/kirby etc...

 

[NOKAUBURE]

im agree with walsh

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Out of curiosity,

Why do people spend so much time making these? Do they serve any other purpose other than giving people preconceived notions of how overpowered/underpowered characters are? I can understand the logic of a matchup chart, as it shows who is weaker against which characters, but hasn't Isai shown us that even that doesn't mean much? Shouldn't a true tier look like this?

The tier list is a combination of:

1. The overall matchups
2. The metagame, which leads to matchup discussions

The purpose of a tier list is simple, it is a ranking of the characters, by who has the best matchups and who is used the most often.

also, if you are in the mood to read something (inb4 TL,DR)
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/User:Semicolon/Treatise_on_the_Existence_of_Tiers

This is not b yme, so excuse any weird grammar.

 

[asianaussie]

That's a surprisingly good question.

The tier list is just a representation of overall matchups, and exists so we look just as competitive than the other games on this site lol.

And koro, in 64's case, the tier list doesn't reflect who is used the most often because we didn't have tourney results. In Melee some characters are relegated to Low/Bottom tier partly due to being under-repped in large tourneys, but in 64 most good (and even more okay) players know how the majority of characters should play, even if they can't play them themselves.

 

[dch111]

We have tier lists because people like to have lists. People like to order things. In any game where you can pick and choose characters to play with or focus on over others, there will eventually, inevitably develop a tier list. I've seen this in not just fighting games--for example, the strategy RPG Fire Emblem has one as well. People like to argue what the best things are, you see this all the time in real life. And after that, the second best. And so on. A tier list just makes it look more organized and less ribble rabble.

 

[MattNF]

I always thought of it as a list of character potentials. Sure, a good Link could beat a Pikachu, but overall Pikachu has more potential to win (in relation to all other characters) due to the nature of her character (good recovery, combos, etc).

 

[NixxxoN]

Tier list is also useful for creating tier johns.

 

[DMoogle]

I like match-up charts and tier lists, because if everyone has a good idea of who's good and who isn't, I can reverse counterpick characters and soulown my opponents when I beat them.

 

[asianaussie]

We have tier lists because people like to have lists. People like to order things. In any game where you can pick and choose characters to play with or focus on over others, there will eventually, inevitably develop a tier list. I've seen this in not just fighting games--for example, the strategy RPG Fire Emblem has one as well. People like to argue what the best things are, you see this all the time in real life. And after that, the second best. And so on. A tier list just makes it look more organized and less ribble rabble.

Fire Emblem is all numbers (chance a stat goes up, max stats, potential to do stuff, supports, etc), and it's easy to pick out who's better than the others. This sort of orderliness is liked by people, so doing the same sort of thing for a non-quantitative game like smash is fun for some and enjoyable to watch for others.

It's just human want for order, methinks.

 

[Lawrencelot]

It is possible to make a tier list, so people do it. There is no doubt that a character like pikachu is just better in most aspects of the game than link. It is not always as clear, but you can still make an order. And people who start with the game can see if the character they chose is a good choice if they want to win, or if it is a challenge

 

[NOKAUBURE]

like cheese ball says, fire emblem or pokemon is easy to make tiers because of stat numbers, and doesnt depends to the player, they have max stats. In super smash bros depends to the character and to the player. 2 factors, noob with pikachu, pro with samus etc. The tier in SBB only has efects if the 2 players has the same experience

 

[asianaussie]

But tier lists take into account the reasonable potential (ie. no DJC dashing, drop cancels aerials) or characters, and thus they do matter, because we're talking about the a very high level of play from both sides of each matchup.

Also gotta argue with the pokemon analogy as the tiering that smogon uses is purely from usage levels, not potential. Sometimes pokes with astonishing capabilities in UU are lifted out of UU because they're overused there, but that doesn't mean they're good enough for OU. Umbreon, for instance, came back up to standard but will probably drop back to UU (or at least BL) because it doesn't wall popular stuff like cb Scizor, luke, lo nape or breloom or machamp and it'll get absolutely wrecked by taunters.

Almost started a pokemon debate >_>

 

[SSBPete]

yes you are correct, the better player will win most of time, with almost any character, but evenly matched players or players who are close in skill level, tiers will definately have a strong effect on the outcome of the game.