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What is "skill"?

Mehijunior

Smash Rookie
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Jan 18, 2007
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The meaning of this word brings up an interesting concept in relation to super smash brothers. I've heard it described in an infinite number of ways, most of which fall under "know your character inside out" and/or "learn advanced techs."

Recently, though it occurred to me what I now believe the true meaning of skill should be:
Instantly exploiting any/all mistakes your opponent makes.

So, with this notion much of what people say is skill simply becomes null and void...
Of course, knowing your character is still important, because if you don't know your character you can't use the proper attacks to exploit your opponent. And if you learn advanced techs, they aid you in moving faster/using mind-games, which in turn either confuse your opponent into making mistakes, or increase your reaction/recover time in order to attack him after he makes a mistake.
And, naturally, the longer you play, the more experience you get, the more familiar you are with the game, the easier it is to exploit your opponent's mistakes.

Perhaps I have overlooked some flaw in my logic, but it appears to me that all of the information I have received thus far about increasing your skill level simply contributes to the overall goal of exploitation.

Therefore, my play style is going to change: no longer will I spend precious mind-time thinking up elaborate/miraculous plans to beat my opponent, but rather I will devote that time to understanding the other player as quickly as possible, in order to learn (ideally by the time I or he loses his first stock) how to react appropriately to an opponent and exploit mistakes.

I've already begun to do this, noticing patterns in my friend's Falco: he overuses the dair and when he does use it, he is only seldom able to SH into it. My reaction: shield as he comes down: if he lands in front, shield-grab, if he lands in back, tilt up-a (w/ Fox). Of course, if my opponent begins to learn, I will have to vary my tactics.

I feel intelligent. :cool:
 

psicicle

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
618
I think that exploitation is part of skill, but a strategy revolving around it would be far to passive. The part you may be missing is making your opponent make mistakes; this would lead to a more balanced playstyle (in my opinion).

Skill is also how well you exploit these mistakes; knowledge of how much time you have to set up your moves is part of this. For example, lag from a missed attack can be punished by a jab or a smash. The smash is definitely more punishing, but in order to do that, you have to know how much lag the attack has for the opponent. (This is simplified; you can lead into combos of course)

On another note, in your definition of skill, "instantly" is not needed; if you expliot these mistakes, it doesn't matter how long it took.
 

FastFox

Faster than most vehicles
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Skill is a combination of all elements of gameplay that is unique specifically to you. It can involve your utilization of the advanced tactics to your ability to think while playing.
 

A-Laon

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Sep 26, 2006
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Skill is really far too vast of a subject to be given any concrete definition that isn't the achievement of the ultimate goal - to win.

Hence, I can only say that "skill" is the ability to win, and everything else is merely one of many components of skill.
 

Pye

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A-Laon is probably right. "Skill" would require an entire essay to define for a game like SSBM. Someone with a lot of skill is someone who combines, exacly as FastFox said, all gameplay elements to their advantage, and can win games with it.

Mehijunior, your first post was fantastic though. Seriously. Quickly finding patterns in your opponent's gameplay is a subcategory of mindgames (I hate that word, it's so overused it means nothing. You understand though, right?). If your friend tends to always come down with aerials, then obviously, you can shieldgrab/shffl out of shield at him every time.

But you can take it even a step furthur. You now know that if your opponent gets knocked up into the air, he'll come back down in a way you can brutally ****. So your new goal is to get your opponent in the air. You spoke of Fox's utilt, so I'll assume you play Fox. To put your opponent in the air, you've got a few choices. Utilt, as you said, your usmash, uthrow and uair. Your dtilt works too.

So now you have a new goal: land those attacks. Find patterns that allow you to do so. If your opponent shields every time you run at him, grab and uthrow. If he dashdances back, chase the dance into a JC usmash (or a grab). You could get even more crafty. Spend some time SHing all your aerials. If he notices this, he might fulljump in an attempt to get over the shffl, which means he'll probably aerial on his way down. Insert form of **** here.

Now, if your friend dosn't notice that he aerials on his way down every time, you're going to win the game. If he does, however, he'll switch it up, which forces you to switch it up. Professional matches go through these switching "phases" many times over the match. You can't see it in videos, but it's happening all the time. Playing against a pro will instantly make you understand just how good they are.

So all that to say that your realization that you should look for how your foe operates is a huge step in the right direction.

EDIT: It's a shame that I can't remember the name of the member who spoke this quote, because it's a really good one:

"He who goes in with a combo thinking it will work is beeing mindgamed"
 

GammaKnight

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
17
Location
CA
Re: What is skill?

You don't need an essay (although you need a general understanding of Mindgames and Technical skill before you can completely understand SSBM skill). First, the word skill has multiple definitions:

1 (v). The ability to perform a task or activity consistently over a period of time.

By this definition, this means that those that can do infinite combos have the most skill.

2. (n) The expertise required for a particular task or occupation which may include manual dexterity and/or mental aptitude.

This one means that a skilled player is a technical player.

3. (v) ability to produce solutions in some problem domain

The best of the former definitions. Skill by this definition means that a player that can get out of trouble, see through mindgames, and successfully perform the desired set of techniques and attacks has the most skill.


Basically, a skilled player is a player that can use a set of techniques to solve one's problems (i.e., defeating his opponent before being defeated oneself) efficiently and flawlessly.

So with the above information, the character with the most skill is the character with the most diverse arsenal of usable strategies, which are Fox (shine infinites and waveshine combos) and Ice Climbers (two character attacks and infinites); a player with the most skill is a character who can use their character's skills as close to flawlessly as possible. This can almost always beat mindgames if successful, assuming you know how to solve that problem (A fox trotting -> Wavedashing -> dashdancing Fox can be owned by a simple successful SHL -> shine -> shffled spike -> spamming the dthrow chaingrab Fox glitch -> dtilt K.O. combo from Falco)


The second part of skill is mindgames (the above is technical skill)

A mindgame is the act using skill to confuse an opponent, rendering its mindset indecisive ("Will my opponent wavesmash or shieldgrab?"), impairing clarity ("I'm gonna freaking fsmash you into oblivion, you dsmash spammer!"), or by dazing him or her long enough to counterstrike ("WTF! How did you do--" [Gets owned by a fsmash]). Mindgames work because it is relatively easy to confuse a human player, but this can be easily counterbalanced by having a higher technical skill (No amount of mindgames will be able to escape a SHL-happy falco on FD unless you have technical skill to protect yourself). A Falco that normally expects the Fox he usually fights to reverse waveshine -> fsmash so he can shieldgrab would lose just to get owned by a JC grab -> fthrow -> shinespike. However, if he had the technical skill, he would have realized that JC shines -> SHLs into a SHL -> K.O. combo would have been more effective.

In conclusion:

(Technical) Skill (v) is the ability of a player to solve problems using a predefined set of talents acquired through training, while a skill (n) or skills are the talents that can be done consistently flawlessly, usually acquired through heavy training. Flawless technical skill is the counter to mindgames.

Mindgames, the other branch of skill, is the act of confusing an opponent long enough for a counterattack or fooling the opponent to react recklessly and forcibly exploiting weaknesses he or she has. Mindgames is the counter to flawed technical skill and other mindgames.
 

Pye

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Excellent breakdown GammaKnight. I agree with you on every point. Discribing to someone what seperates pros from good players is like trying to describe what Paris looks like at night. It's one of those things that people have too see for themselves, and no amount of describing will ever do the real thing justice.

GammaKnight said:
You don't need an essay[...]
Erm, that post was over 500 words long...sounds like an essay to me :laugh:
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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smash? skill? ha.
it's just a game of rock, paper, scissors that becomes increasingly dangerous with smart players.
 

Mehijunior

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
13
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Moraga, CA. Any east bay players PM me! need oppon
I like the feedback goin' on here.

But still, there are some things I'd like to point out from my personal experience:

Playing competitively, as I have done more so recently, I have experimented with two mindsets I have put myself in going into a match: first, the aggressive, spontaneous/unpredictable, teching-as-well-as-I-can mode; second, the *somewhat* more passive (depending on char, obviously more passive if I'm using Ganondorf instead of fox), mentally cautious, manipulative/exploitative mode.

I've noticed that I win more consistently playing in the exploitative mode than when I play the aggressive mode. Perhaps this is unique to me and my ability as a player, or perhaps my tech skills aren't as up-to-par as they should be, but I have to say it's a striking difference.

My friends can become somewhat excited when I play in an aggressive mode (I remember one instance, Fox v. Falco) and I end up barely winning on my last stock with 82% damage.
And then I switch to a Ness or an Ice Climbers, and play against the same char, switch my mindset, and win by a 1-2 stock margin (starting at 5).

So, at least in my case, to increase my skill I should just increase what I believe contributes to my ability to win. Or perhaps to get better I need to vary my play from aggressive to manipulative to aggressive and back again.
 

Uck

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 8, 2006
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Sanford Florida
Is this thread a joke or something?You want the definition of skill just go look in a dictionary. Actually ill do it for you.

skill - an ability that has been acquired by training.

Have a nice day
 

Uck

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 8, 2006
Messages
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Sanford Florida
The answer to that question lies in the definition of the word skill.But I see you dont see that so here we go.

learning to do things increases you skill.

Advance techs = skill
How to use Stages = skill
Wavedashing = skill
learning how to read opponents = skill

Do you get the idea??
 

Luigi Ka-master

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Laie, HI
smash? skill? ha.
it's just a game of rock, paper, scissors that becomes increasingly dangerous with smart players.


That may have some truth to it, buuut...first off, there are a lot more options than just rock, paper and scissors. Like...a gabillion more. Which leads into another thing; in order to be able to know how to use all of those different options, you have to have a fairly decent knowledge of the game, and be experienced with the situations.

AKA you have to have skill. And you're like exclusively talking about the guys who are the best of the best at this game. That's what the skill level requires for them. If you take a mega noob smasher, and a smasher with bad mindgames but decent tech-skill, and have them play eachother, than the smasher with the tech skill is obviously going to win. And not because he's playing rock paper scissors.

You really can't sum up the game like that. It may be part of it, but it's definately not the whole thing.
 
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