What is King Dedede's best down special custom?

[Amazing Ampharos]

The custom moveset discussion I believe has mostly concluded that down special is a bad move on King Dedede independent of which down special is selected. Therefore, it is not in King Dedede's interest to have multiple slots used up on various down special choices; one move should just be picked and used in every set so King Dedede can have the maximum variety among his three useful special moves. However, no solid conclusion was ever reached as per which of these three marginal moves is the least marginal, and our original decision of Armored Jet Hammer was based on poor reasoning involving fake game mechanics. Let us review the mechanics...

All: This is a very slow move with deceptively small hitboxes. It can be charged up and released at any time, and while charging, King Dedede can walk (not run) around and do a single small jump off the ground. If held at maximum charge, it will gradually inflict damage upon King Dedede until the move is released or King Dedede reaches 100% or more damage, whichever comes first.

Default Jet Hammer: This move has no extra functionality but has the most power. At a full charge, it kills Mario from the center of an omega stage (Wii U version) at 58% in training mode (no staleness/rage). This move also does a whopping 38% damage with a full charge in training mode.

Armored Jet Hammer: Once this move reaches the point at which King Dedede is holding the charge, this move has super armor for as long as King Dedede holds the charge (yes, there is no limit to how long you can keep super armor up). This super armor can only be activated on the ground, but if King Dedede attains super armor and then jumps, he will retain it. However, this move has considerably less KO power than the default, only KOing Mario from the center of an omega stage at 124% in training mode. This move also appears to do approximately 2/3 the damage of default, only doing 24% damage fully charged in training mode.

Dashing Jet Hammer: This peculiar move creates a constant push backward on King Dedede the entire time he is charging it. Upon release of the charge, King Dedede will hurl himself forward a modest distance while swinging the hammer. This move actually has two hitboxes depending on King Dedede's spacing. If King Dedede is further away from his target, this move will do 18% damage with a full charge and KO Mario from the center of an omega stage at 112% (all in training mode). If King Dedede is a bit closer, this move will only do 16% damage with a full charge and will kill Mario at 124% from the center of an omega stage (again all in training mode). If King Dedede is very close this move will actually whiff completely as King Dedede will move past the target.

I have no stake in this or particular opinion on which move is best; I could see plausible arguments for all three and do indeed regard all three as poor moves. Please just let me know what you think the most worthwhile of them is via this poll so we can lock that down. If you disagree and think precisely one is good, please vote for it and make a good argument for it, and I'm sure we can make that work out. If you think the premise is wrong and there are in fact multiple excellent down specials for King Dedede, well, that would be the first time I've ever heard that suggested but it would destroy the premise of the poll so bring it up and we'll consider that.

It is also probably possible to elaborate more on the move mechanics; if anyone wants to do that, that would be great.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'd say armoured is the best because it can at least restrict the opponent's options of how
to approach Dedede in certain situations, especially if you've got them pinned down
somehow (ie at the edge with a bouncing gordo). Also has dubious use in breaking juggles,
but you're in for a grab if they see it.

It should be mentioned that this custom does inflict self-damage faster at full charge,
which could be good or bad with Dedede's great rage game.

 

[dean.]

I would never use any of these moves in a serious game, but for the purpose of the project I think Dash Jet Hammer is probably the least bad since you might actually hit with it... even if it is punishable on hit at a decent range of %s...

In doubles default might have a small niche? Mostly because it's way more rewarding on hit than the others.

Edit: actually Armoured Jet Hammer might be fun to platform camp Little Macs if you have the stock lead and are already at a high %? But I've never tried that lol...

 

[ぱみゅ]

Armored might have the best Gimmick/surprise usage of the bunch.
Wouldn't rely on any, but this one miiiiiiiiiiiight catch people offguard.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I feel Dash Jet Hammer has potential for some hidden tech like Bowser's Dash Slash custom. But since we havent found it yet. I s`pose Armored Jet Hammer is the most useful choice.

 

[SalsaSavant]

I'm going with armored, but it's very close. Both are almost equally viable..and by that, I mean barely viable, but may have some very niche surprise factor.

 

[W.A.C.]

I'd say Armored Jet Hammer is probably his best one, but Dashing Jet Hammer might be a worth alternative. Since people seem somewhat conflicted about it, it might be best to include Dashing Jet Hammer with at least one of the custom move sets. The standard one is easily the worst one of the bunch.

 

[Aki]

The only niche this move has, is mindgaming your opponent and for this, the standard Jet Hammer is the best. The others lack the power to be worthwhile. Also the damage rackup is much faster with the armoured one so that's an additional downside.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Armored Jet Hammer has a solid lead right now. I'll check this again in a few days, but it seems likely it will be the winner.

 

[meleebrawler]

The only niche this move has, is mindgaming your opponent and for this, the standard Jet Hammer is the best. The others lack the power to be worthwhile. Also the damage rackup is much faster with the armoured one so that's an additional downside.

But wouldn't taking away the opponent's option of just hitting D3 out of Jet Hammer be better
as a mindgame? Their only options would be grabbing or running away.
Also the faster damage buildup might not be so bad considering how much Dedede likes rage,
and it stops doing that past 100% so there's no risk of going overboard (and 100% is a nice rage percent
for Dedede; many moves that would KO lighter characters here don't with D3).

Sorry, but if you're looking for power, just use Fsmash. Seriously. The story of Jet Hammer's life
is being outclassed by that move.

 

[Soul Train]

There's one thing Jet hammer has over Fsmash: the ability to jump.

Instead of doing the full charge, I find Jet Hammer to be far more usable partially charged (kills at 90% with ~1 sec charge) as an occasional replacement to Fair. Covered with a Gordo, this makes for a fun mixup. Throw UGordo, charge hammer, jumpSWING!

 

[Aki]

Sorry, but if you're looking for power, just use Fsmash. Seriously. The story of Jet Hammer's life
is being outclassed by that move.

Jet Hammer is better than Fsmash in one regard, it comes out much faster once it's ready. It hits almost immediately. If someone tries to go for an attack you just have to let go of B, at worst you will trade blows unless you get hit by a disjointed hit.

 

[W.A.C.]

I used Armored Jet Hammer at a tournament last Friday and I found it to be a very useful move when your opponent is at kill percentage. I whip out the jet hammer when they're about to get a hit on me, take the damage, then knock them off the stage.

 

[meleebrawler]

Jet Hammer is better than Fsmash in one regard, it comes out much faster once it's ready. It hits almost immediately. If someone tries to go for an attack you just have to let go of B, at worst you will trade blows unless you get hit by a disjointed hit.

By ready, do you mean fully charged? Because that takes longer than even fully charging Fsmash.
I will admit default is the one that requires the least amount of charge to become safe on hit, but armoured
is more likely to get the crucial charging time that you need.

 

[Aki]

By ready, do you mean fully charged? Because that takes longer than even fully charging Fsmash.

Yes, I meant that. But you missed the point. If someone tries to challenge your Jet Hammer with an attack, they should get punished for it no matter what. Having the super armor Jet Hammer is only a crutch for this and it comes with glaring downsides.

 

[meleebrawler]

Yes, I meant that. But you missed the point. If someone tries to challenge your Jet Hammer with an attack, they should get punished for it no matter what. Having the super armor Jet Hammer is only a crutch for this and it comes with glaring downsides.

Only ground attacks are likely to be punished. Jet Hammer has no aerial coverage except
trying to jump and intercept a frontal aerial attack, but otherwise he's completely helpless against attacks
from above since he can't do anything but walk slowly away or release the swing, which leaves him open.
Whereas armoured can punish any poorly spaced aerial, even autocancelling ones, with good timing.
And if they don't air attack and have bad air mobility, you can maneuver to punish their landing.

 

[Genghis_Connor]

Wait.

What down special?