What is counterpicking?

[insekt11]

Hi, I'm a new smasher. I've never been to a tournament yet Anyway, I'm curious about the rules concerning picking stages. I have a couple of questions:
1. Does it matter who starts the stage striking?
2. After the first match the winner bans a stage. Is this stage banned for the rest of the match or just for that game?
3. Who can counterpick and when?
4. What is counterpicking?:D

 

[Shikenshu]

1) I think it's port priority (first port starts), but it doesn't really mather since you' ll both strike 2 stages.
2)I'm not sure, but I think it's for the rest of the match. (Though, it doesn't make any differences since in bo5 there's no ban and in bo3, the loser never picks twice (the second time, he loses the set)
3)The loser of the game counterpick for the next game BEFORE characters picking.
4)Couterpicking: The loser pick a stage to play the next game because he believe he can win the game on that stage.

 

[KrIsP!]

1.You play rock paper scissors to see who strikes a stage first but most people don't care, there's no real advantage to going first unless you have some ****ed up mind games.

2.The winner's ban is only for that game, mostly because bans are only in a bo3 so he has obviously won once and if you win he'll get to pick the next stage or have won. So no.

3.Loser counterpicks after losing from the 6 legal stages.

4.It is the act of picking a stage to give yourself an advantage. If you're playing a fox and lose the first game, you may not want to give him the space to run around or a low ceiling, so you can pick FoD if you want to, but he gets to ban one stage in a bo3.

What is important to note is that if you go to your third game and make your ban he cannot return to the stage he won on during the first game, though people usually don't care enough to call others out on it in a bo3 since you get a ban and the first stage is usually battle field. Though that's only from my own experience.

 

[abcool]

1) Yes, it does matter who starts the stage striking because the winner of the RPS or GW timer will be the person to strike the last stage, thus giving him favor in going toward the stage that better suits his character.

2) The stage is banned for the rest of the set. It can no longer be used as an option to counterpick to. This does not apply to striking since striking only selects the first stage to be played on.

3)The loser of the previous match can counterpick the next stage and it usually goes down when the game returns to the character select screen after the first match as been played out. So, let's say you lost the first match, when the game returns to the character select screen your opponent will say "I ban this stage" and you will say "I counterpick to this stage" he will then choose a character and then you choose a character. You always pick a character AFTER the winner of the previous match. They can't pick after you (The loser)

4) Counterpicking is basically fixing the advantage that the smash series grants some characters. Ex. Sheik vs Ganon on Final destination. If counterpicks were ignored characters with stupid chaingrabs or other advantages on select stages would push the matchup more in their favor, not to mention just matchups in general. People would be able to pick after the loser has selected which also makes the game more unfair. It was created to make the game a bit more balanced tournament wise.

 

[Bones0]

Hi, I'm a new smasher. I've never been to a tournament yet Anyway, I'm curious about the rules concerning picking stages. I have a couple of questions:
1. Does it matter who starts the stage striking?
2. After the first match the winner bans a stage. Is this stage banned for the rest of the match or just for that game?
3. Who can counterpick and when?
4. What is counterpicking?:D

Wow, so many straight up wrong answers in this thread...

1. It can. There are some advantages and disadvantages to both sides. Striking first means you also get to strike last, but whatever stage you strike at the beginning may give you overall strategy away to your opponent. For instance, a Fox that begins the striking process by striking YS vs. Peach is probably going to play much campier than a Fox that strikes DL first. In a somewhat similar fashion, if there is one stage that the player/character is considered really bad on, you will often see the same stage being banned all the time. Falcon players almost always strike FoD, so them striking first is a pretty good advantage. Their strike of FoD doesn't tell you much about what their gameplan or style may entail. Most of the time, however, each player has two stages they really don't want to play on and the fifth stage is what is struck to. I would say this is how at least 90% of stage strikes go, but it could be higher or lower based on what characters/stages you use.

2. Yes, it is banned for the rest of the set. The MBR Recommended Ruleset only uses bans in bo3s however, so it ends up not mattering if that's the ruleset you are using. If your TO is using a different ruleset, a ban is assumed to last for the entire set and cannot be changed unless stated otherwise.

3. and 4. There are both character counterpicks and stage counterpicks, and either (or both) can happen any time after the first game. The order of stage/character selection is usually as follows:
- Winner bans a stage (this step is skipped if the player has already banned a stage during the set)
- Loser chooses a stage (this is considered a stage counterpick)
- Winner chooses a character (this can be considered a character counterpick, but...)
- Loser chooses a character (... the loser gets to change his character last, so he can character counterpick the winner's counterpick)

 

[insekt11]

So in bo5s the loser can choose freely from all stages?

 

[The Business]

http://smashboards.com/threads/tentative-mbr-official-ruleset-for-2012.313252/

read

 

[insekt11]

http://smashboards.com/threads/tentative-mbr-official-ruleset-for-2012.313252/

read

''Counterpick:
Pokemon Stadium''

''Players select their characters. Either player may elect to Double Blind.
Use Stage Striking* to determine the first stage.
The players play the first match of the set.
Prior to starting this match, either player may elect to Contest Port Priority or Neutral Start.
Spoiler Toggle Spoiler
Winning player of the preceding match bans a stage/stages (if applicable).
The losing player of the preceding match picks a stage for the next match.
The winning player of the preceding match may choose to change characters.
The losing player of the preceding match may choose to change characters.
The losing player of the preceding match gets first pick of port. Either player may elect for a Neutral Start, but RPS will not be played to determine first pick.
The next match is played.
Repeat Steps 4 through 9 for all subsequent matches until the set is complete.''

I have and it didn't answer my questions.

 

[Krynxe]

What don't you understand?

• For Best of 3 sets, each player gets 1 stage ban.
• For Best of 5 sets, there are no stage bans.
• For Best of 7 sets, DSRM is enabled for the 7th match, but the winner of the 6th match is allowed one stage ban, to be used after the 6th match is played.

Winning player of the preceding match bans a stage/stages (if applicable).
The losing player of the preceding match picks a stage for the next match.

The 5 main stages (Yoshi's, Fountain, Final D, Battlefield, and Dreamland) are the only ones available during the first match in the striking process, Pokemon Stadium is added to this list making a total of 6 stages that can be selected from during every other match of the set.

And yes, according to this ruleset, the loser can chose freely from these six stages only.

 

[insekt11]

What don't you understand?






The 5 main stages (Yoshi's, Fountain, Final D, Battlefield, and Dreamland) are the only ones available during the first match in the striking process, Pokemon Stadium is added to this list making a total of 6 stages that can be selected from during every other match of the set.

And yes, according to this ruleset, the loser can chose freely from these six stages only.

I understand now. The rules said ''pick'' and not ''counterpick'' so I thought that counterpicking might be something else but apparently it isn't