What if Fox couldn't shine?

[necroTaxonomist]

Imagine some warped, demented parallel universe where Fox's reflector does no damage or knockback.
Would he still be at the top of the tier list?
What about Falco? Would he still be good?

I'm curious what you guys think. I personally don't play enough spacie to give an educated opinion.

 

[pagedMov]

Definitely not top of the tier list. Fox's shine is the scale tipper in most of his match-ups with top tiers (it's the main reason why Marth doesn't beat him, and the reason why he completely ****s over falcon)
if he didn't have it, he'd still be high tier but not top tier
Falco's punish game would be sorely crippled without his shine. Characters that can apply pressure really well would end him because he would lose an OoS option that could potentially end someone's stock for even trying to apply pressure. That's not to mention he would lose the ability to apply safe pressure himself, because pillaring on shield wouldn't exist anymore. Falco would probably be an upper-mid to high tier character without his shine.

 

[EPsilon933]

Fox wouldn't be able to waveshine (to basically guaranteed usmash) nor shine spike Peach. She would never die against him (Uthrow > uair is easy to SDI)

 

[ECHOnce]

They'd probably fall to high tier status, if not high-mid. But then we'd all be dominated by grabby Sheik overlords, and that would be a much less entertaining game lol. Only viable stylish char would be Marth, given how Sheik's placement would weigh against Falcon. RIP interesting Melee without shine, despite how much we often loathe how broken af it is.

 

[EPsilon933]

Fox and Falco are broken, but they're 2 of the funnest characters in the game. Their broken bull**** is worth keeping. They have the best approach capabilities

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

That is a curious idea that I swear has been brought up before, but I never really gave much thought.

Fox I would say it not necessarily dependent upon it at all. Shine knocks down enough people or pushes some characters far enough way he cannot always follow-up on people. In a way, Shine resets to neutral a good portion of the time upon hitting someone with it. You would prefer to land with grab or some other move. The midair spikes is really only a minor loss it feels like. It certainly hurts, but Fox is still good enough in other areas I think it would not hinder him too much.

Falco on the other hand probably simply loses the most from combos. He might suffer the most.

 

[-ACE-]

Marth on spacies would be the truest counter in the game.

Edit: well, of the relevant characters, lol.