What if Custom Moves Replace Characters...?

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

With the addition of custom moves there's an opportunity to give base characters all the specials their clones/semi-clones had.

For example, Fox might be able to have Falco's upb or Wolf's. Or Falco or Wolf's laser. Ness (I'm sure he's in) could have Lucas's specials.

My question is: If these custom moves actually replace some characters would you be okay with that? Would you be okay with the base character getting a skin of another?

Personally I wouldn't be okay with it. Clone characters have properties and some moves to make them different enough to be their own character. I was a Ness fan but switched to Lucas when Brawl came out. I prefer Falco over Fox in Melee. Plus I like being able to see all the character slots.

EDIT: I don't really think this will happen. It is purely theoretical. Just getting opinions on it and sparking conversation.

EDIT2: New question I thought of thanks to @ SS-bros14 . Do you think clones like Lucina and Marth will have the same custom moves?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

With the addition of custom moves there's an opportunity to give base characters all the specials their clones/semi-clones had.

For example, Fox might be able to have Falco's upb or Wolf's. Or Falco or Wolf's laser. Ness (I'm sure he's in) could have Lucas's specials.

My question is: If these custom moves actually replace some characters would you be okay with that? Would you be okay with the base character getting a skin of another?

Personally I wouldn't be okay with it. Clone characters have properties and some moves to make them different enough to be their own character. I was a Ness fan but switched to Lucas when Brawl came out. I prefer Falco over Fox in Melee. Plus I like being able to see all the character slots.

I feel this disaster was averted due to the addition of Lucina, who is a clone.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

I feel this disaster was averted due to the addition of Lucina, who is a clone.

Agreed. If Lucina made it in you have nothing to worry about.

 

[strawhatninja]

I think we are okay since there will probably be more clones, but I know a lot of people suggested cutting Lucas and giving Ness his moves. I would hate that though because then I couldn't use "Lucas" online, and I like him better then Ness so that wouldn't be fair to us Lucas fans.

 

[Raijinken]

I want characters more. The only real exception I could see is Falco being able to re-clone into Fox or something like that.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah I always liked Lucas better. His aerials were pretty sick. That usmash was madd slow but sooo powerful. All of his specials are better than Ness's in my opinion. For some reason I tend to like the clones better. Luigi, Ganondorf, Falco, Lucas. I think the only clones I didn't like too much were Roy, Pichu, and Wolf.

 

[Shuckle89]

Well, this is ofc theoretical and not actually happening (just to point it out for the people here).

I think it wouldn't be a good idea because of multiple reasons.
1: Custom moves only replace the special moves. 'Clones' have more different A moves than B moves. Sure, they have some slight differences (little knock back on falcos laser) etc, but, in general it's their A moves that makes them so different from one another. Although it obviously depends what you call clones. Lucina/marth is the most perfect example of clone.
2: Seeing how many are discussing whether or not custom moves should be allowed, there is a chance of it not being allowed in tourneys, thus removing all 'clones' in it's entirely.
3: most clones (like falco/fox) aren't really clones (like I said, depends on what you call clones). As they have everything differently. Not just B moves and A moves, but also weight/jump height etc
4: Clones don't hurt. They are a very easy addition to a game. It's a good way to make the roster seem bigger/more to pick and for most of the players it's not a problem. People that just enjoy the chaos/mess/fun of items/stages probably don't mind lucina being very much like marth. She looks different, has it's own character slot and it's own, whatever you want to call it.

However, if we'd instead of the clones get new characters/veterans with their own movesets, then obviously I'm going to vote for custom moves replacing them. But I'd also vote for new characters even if the clones would just be gone (looking at you, lucina).

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Lucina is a clone, but I don't think she necessarily answers it. She's a clone of Marth, yes, but she has completely different physics than Marth. I don't think that custom moves can change physics, only move properties.

 

[Rymi]

yea for falcos b fox can have his but up airs and everything can have diffrect effects like a fire or ice effect on the subject of lucas and ness nesses custom pk flash would either go faster and weaker slower and more power id think

 

[guedes the brawler]

"Press A to play"

i swear, people forget the button does stuff too.

 

[Rymi]

"Press A to play"

i swear, people forget the button does stuff too.

people ignore that all the time im just sayan that its possible for it to happen but really its sakurai he cant get his own game wrong

 

[guedes the brawler]

people ignore that all the time im just sayan that its possible for it to happen but really its sakurai he cant get his own game wrong

he already did.

Rosalina, robin and Lucina are there when more important people form their series aren't playable. DK took 15 years to get his roll that should've been a special move in the first place, Wario will likely keep his moveset that has nothing to do with Wario Land, he is bringing back Melee stages that we saw in Brawl for 3Ds instead of the ones we didn't, For Glory has no platforms, etc.

i

 

[SS-bros14]

Yes, personally I think Fox's customs should be based off Falco and Wolf, and Ness' customs should be based off Lucas.

 

[Rymi]

he already did.

Rosalina, robin and Lucina are there when more important people form their series aren't playable. DK took 15 years to get his roll that should've been a special move in the first place, Wario will likely keep his moveset that has nothing to do with Wario Land, he is bringing back Melee stages that we saw in Brawl for 3Ds instead of the ones we didn't, For Glory has no platforms, etc.

i

who's more importent then rosalina in her game, robin is honesly in my eyes the same importentce as chrom lucina is for those who want a easier to use marth and has importance to the story of awakening,wario is good as he is melee stages in those because they are liked and for glory are for those people who like to play items off final destination

 

[guedes the brawler]

who's more importent then rosalina in her game, robin is honesly in my eyes the same importentce as chrom lucina is for those who want a easier to use marth and has importance to the story of awakening,wario is good as he is melee stages in those because they are liked and for glory are for those people who like to play items off final destination

in "her game"? it's "the mario series" dude. And as far as the 2 galaxy games go, Bowser Jr did more than her. on the "series-wide" aspect, we have Toad.

Chrom is the protagonist of awakening.

 

[Johnknight1]

Every time I read that Lucas, Wolf, and Falco should be skins, I wonder why the following.
1. If they play the game=??? (probably not)

2. If they understand different skillsets and playstyles are a thing, and that you play Lucas and Ness pretty differently and rely on different things, while Wolf, Falco, and Fox aren't even remotely similar to how you play them.

3. The A button exists. The only overlapping moves among those 3 are with Lucas and Ness kinda sorta the forward smash (although they function a bit differently), and with Fox and Falco (in Brawl) the down tilt, down smash, and grab throws (the latter of which has entirely different knockback systems). Wolf has no shared A moves with Fox or Falco.

4. That Ganondorf is more similar to Captain Falcon than those 3 to the characters they are based off.

5. That those 3 characters are less of clones than Toon Link and even Luigi, aka confirmed characters.

6. That if they're saying we should "cut clones", we should cut Ganondorf (if he doesn't get a new moveset) first.

===

All in all this talk just tells me non-Smash fans like to tell Smash fans what's what. They are literally guided by ignorance.

 

[Rymi]

in "her game"? it's "the mario series" dude. And as far as the 2 galaxy games go, Bowser Jr did more than her. on the "series-wide" aspect, we have Toad.

Chrom is the protagonist of awakening.

but who has more moveset possibility and is different and really robin is more then just another swordsman chrom might be able to use lances but still robin is the protagonist as well there dosent have to be 1 protagonist

 

[guedes the brawler]

but who has more moveset possibility and is different and really robin is more then just another swordsman chrom might be able to use lances but still robin is the protagonist as well there dosent have to be 1 protagonist

there can only be 1 protagonist. there can be multiple main characters, but protagonists? only 1. similarly important characters receive the names of Deuteragonist and Tritagonist, and those 2 are what we got.

imagine if luigi was playable and mario wasn't'? it's a disgrace.

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

I don't think custom moves are suitable replacements for entire characters.

Some characters may not make the cut, but I'd be upset if Sakurai told us, "I never even worked on Wolf 'cause I figured I could give Fox a slow blaster variation. What more do you want?"

Specials are only a small part of what make the character. Unique combinations of jumping power, gravity, fall speed, lateral air speed, etc, all combine to give each character a very distinct feeling of maneuverability and contribute more to their playstyles than special moves do. Custom moves can't make Fox move like Wolf, for example.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

there can only be 1 protagonist. there can be multiple main characters, but protagonists? only 1. similarly important characters receive the names of Deuteragonist and Tritagonist, and those 2 are what we got.

imagine if luigi was playable and mario wasn't'? it's a disgrace.

The definition of "protagonist" is main character, so in a way, you are contradicting yourself with synonyms. Basically, what happened Sakurai didn't find Chrom a unique addition to the roster, and so he chose Robin, a far better choice, who represents other parts of FE besides blue haired lords. Lucina was originally planned to be an alt. costume to Marth, but was promoted to a playable character, due to extra time.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I don't think custom moves are suitable replacements for entire characters.

Some characters may not make the cut, but I'd be upset if Sakurai told us, "I never even worked on Wolf 'cause I figured I could give Fox a slow blaster variation. What more do you want?"

Specials are only a small part of what make the character. Unique combinations of jumping power, gravity, fall speed, lateral air speed, etc, all combine to give each character a very distinct feeling of maneuverability and contribute more to their playstyles than special moves do. Custom moves can't make Fox move like Wolf, for example.

That's the main reason I say no to that. If characters like Falco and Lucas were total clones except for their specials, then I could be ok with a character cut if customs are from clones. But each clone has different properties such as the ones you mentioned. Clones from Melee to Brawl became less cloney by changing up the A moves. Because of this I would not support character cuts even if base characters have alternate skins

 

[Rymi]

I don't think custom moves are suitable replacements for entire characters.

Some characters may not make the cut, but I'd be upset if Sakurai told us, "I never even worked on Wolf 'cause I figured I could give Fox a slow blaster variation. What more do you want?"

Specials are only a small part of what make the character. Unique combinations of jumping power, gravity, fall speed, lateral air speed, etc, all combine to give each character a very distinct feeling of maneuverability and contribute more to their playstyles than special moves do. Custom moves can't make Fox move like Wolf, for example.

or do ask much damage as him in one a press

 

[Logsmash]

in "her game"? it's "the mario series" dude. And as far as the 2 galaxy games go, Bowser Jr did more than her. on the "series-wide" aspect, we have Toad.

Chrom is the protagonist of awakening.

Toad is already in the game though, as part of Peach's moveset. Does he need to be his own character? Plus Nintendo seems to be pushing for another Princess who actually participates in non-sport/party games, for example SM3DW. Therefore, it makes sense that they would include Rosalina in Sm4sh because they're trying to promote her character. Furthermore, it's not as if they simply took Peach's moveset and slapped it on Rosalina. I'd say she's one of the most unique fighters in the game, making her a worthy addition to the roster.

As for Bowser Jr..... eh, Koopalings were in MK8 and he wasn't? I don't know what to tell you, personally I think he could be an interesting newcomer. Who knows, maybe he'll be included as a secret character or Assist Trophy?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3XT2mBvxE

 

[ミスティック Speed]

No.
If anything, this should make the clone characters more unique due to their cutom options.

 

[SS-bros14]

No.
If anything, this should make the clone characters more unique due to their cutom options.

Unless the custom options are exactly the same as the character they are clones to.

 

[Khao]

That would be terrible.

I don't play as Lucas so I can play as Ness with slightly different special moves. In fact, ever since Melee, I can't ****ing stand Ness moveset to the point I just reset the match most of the times I get him on random.

Lucas, though? He has a really fun, fast-paced moveset with several multi-hit attacks and quite a few good kill moves, custom moves are simply not capable of changing things around so much that you get a completely different character.

Same goes for Wolf, you just don't get Wolf's moves in the custom movesets, even if the specials can be recreated perfectly.

Thank god that's not happening, I'd be scared if it wasn't for Lucina and Toon Link, but if they can bring back the faster version of Link, and create what's apparently the most clone-ish clone in the history of Smash, I can't see them cut Lucas and Wolf just because we have custom movesets, they're not even clones in the eyes of a lot of people (inculding myself) and I kinda bet that's what Sakurai thinks too.

Sakurai said it already, if only one thing about a clone character is different from the original, they deserve a separate spot of their own because of records and ****.

And seriously, if anything, the custom movesets made me think that clone characters are more likely now, as you can give each one completely different sets of custom moves to differentiate them further.

 

[Gidy]

I'm gonna be disappointed if clone characters have the same abilities as their originals like if Lucina had Marths dashing Neutral B. Give some variety to them.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Unless the custom options are exactly the same as the character they are clones to.

I don't think they'll get rid of those clone characters but I can actually see this happening. If Falco is in the game he'll have his same B moves most likely. Him and Fox will probably have the same customization options.

That poses a great question!! I'll add it to the OP

 

[Khao]

I don't think they'll get rid of those clone characters but I can actually see this happening. If Falco is in the game he'll have his same B moves most likely. Him and Fox will probably have the same customization options.

That poses a great question!! I'll add it to the OP

I can imagine things like Fox having the option to use Falco's Brawl reflector and Falco having the option to go back to his old Melee one, but I don't think they'll give them the same choices for every single move.

 

[ferioku]

Sorry, but I think that idea ruins the whole point of having unique charcters. Customizable moves will not be like that.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I can imagine things like Fox having the option to use Falco's Brawl reflector and Falco having the option to go back to his old Melee one, but I don't think they'll give them the same choices for every single move.

Well every character has 3 total options for each special. Unless they can find 6 different variations of a reflector I don't think the custom moves will be very different.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, you could have 6 different reflectors. I could think of six different lasers too

 

[Booster]

No way, I prefer varied characters as opposed to varied moves on some characters. Anyways, considering Wii U has discs that can store up to 50 gb (HOLY ****ING ****) we could have both since Namco Bandai is helping Nintendo

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

EDIT: Now that I think about it, you could have 6 different reflectors. I could think of six different lasers too

They could also have a "Shine" as a custom down special move. That is, it retains its offensive properties from Melee but loses its ability to reflect projectiles, and goes off in an instant on-off burst rather than staying out.

 

[ferioku]

Whoever thinks that Wolf is a clone seriously p's me off. The only thing he has similar(not the same) is his UP B and Down B, even they are different. His side be goes up diagonally and his neutral be is nothing like the other 2, it even has a spike hit if you're in melee range, Wolf is obviously not a clone.

 

[GunGunW]

It'd be really insulting to the people who main the "clones" to make them nothing more than alternate skins. Falco is much more aerial based than Fox, and it wouldn't be the same with him being nothing more than a skin... and that goes for all of them.

 

[eltacoenojado]

Another thing to remember is that those custom move sets won't be available in the "with anyone" online mode. I'm all for having as many characters as possible, clones or no to use in that mode because they all have their own way of playing and subtle (or sometimes not that subtle) differences.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

sorry but i don't think custom move should be used competitivly like a tournaments so technically no im not okay with it but i could care less if those characters came back though.

 

[Lozjam]

I wish they would have done this for Doctor Mario though. Give Mario a pill special and a Doc alt. That would be the only character that I would be fine doing that though

 

[Ryan.]

I thought about this a few times. I wouldn't want it for Lucas but honestly would be okay with Fox having Falco/Wolf specials. However it's probably best to have Falco back since he's a Melee character with a lot of fans.