What do you consider a clone?

[JakieWinks]

Let me make it clear that this is all meant to be opinion based, I don't want to anger anybody, but what do you guys consider a clone? Where is your limit to how similar two characters can be?

IMO, the characters that resemble clones the most are link/young link, mario/dr mario, and pikachu/pichu. I think the PMBR did a very good job from straying away from clones, and the closest you could argue to clones would be link/toon link and/or wolf, but that's a very long shot.

But let me hear what you guys think!

 

[DrinkingFood]

As a superficial concept, characters who share the majority of the animations and their skeletal structure are clones. But there aren't any characters in PM, and few-to-none in the other games, they are cloney enough to play similarly.
And wolf isn't even close to a clone. He shares similar ideas in specials, most notably his shine, and ledge/knockdown attacks and movements, but that's about it. He's got more dissimilar animations than similar ones. The same applies to Link/Tink. Fox/falco are definitely superficial clones, and they're probably the only pair that even that applies to strongly anymore. Ganon/falcon and Roy/Marth have gotten some great treatment between games and no longer share quite as many animations. Superficially, they're kinda like semi-clones.
And note, this is stuff based on visuals only. For the most part it's not relevant or worth any additional discussion.
Why did you even bother to start this thread anyways? It's kinda pointless.

 

[Comatose]

Functionally, there are no clones. Even if the characters share move animations, there are ALWAYS differences in the play style that make them unique.

 

[JakieWinks]

And wolf isn't even close to a clone. He shares similar ideas in specials, most notably his shine, and ledge/knockdown attacks and movements, but that's about it. He's got more dissimilar animations than similar ones. The same applies to Link/Tink. Fox/falco are definitely superficial clones, and they're probably the only pair that even that applies to strongly anymore. Ganon/falcon and Roy/Marth have gotten some great treatment between games and no longer share quite as many animations. Superficially, they're kinda like semi-clones.
And note, this is stuff based on visuals only. For the most part it's not relevant or worth any additional discussion.
Why did you even bother to start this thread anyways? It's kinda pointless.

I realize wolf isn't a clone, as well as toon link and all the other pm characters, I was just saying that if someone wanted to say one was a clone, the only argument they could even attempt to make would be toon link or wolf ect. But if they tried them out for a good amount of time they would realize that they're different.
I just wanted to hear other's opinion on this, that's all.

 

[Terotrous]

I would just use the definition: "They're built from the same character base and thus share some animations and moves". In that sense, Falco, Wolf, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Roy, Dr Mario, and Pichu are all clones.

Of course, being clones doesn't necessarily mean they play exactly the same. They can have some unique moves and properties that make them feel different. In general, I do feel that they should try to be as distinct as possible, though. For one thing, I really wasn't happy that PM reverted some de-cloned moves to Melee (Falco FSmash, Fair, Ganon USmash, etc). I always think we should try to make the clones have more unique animations, not less.

 

[Xinc]

I would just use the definition: "They're built from the same character base and thus share some animations and moves". In that sense, Falco, Wolf, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Roy, Dr Mario, and Pichu are all clones.

Of course, being clones doesn't necessarily mean they play exactly the same. They can have some unique moves and properties that make them feel different. In general, I do feel that they should try to be as distinct as possible, though. For one thing, I really wasn't happy that PM reverted some de-cloned moves to Melee (Falco FSmash, Fair, Ganon USmash, etc). I always think we should try to make the clones have more unique animations, not less.

Well, technically some were buffs in disguise. Falco's FSmash had far more kill potential and Ganon's USmash was more reliable, though I believe I find brawl falco fair better than Melee fair. Though, I'm sure Falco was the first character to be "melee-ified" for the P:M.

 

[JakieWinks]

Though, I'm sure Falco was the first character to be "melee-ified" for the P:M.

Yeah I remember reading somewhere that falco was the first character they developed for project m. But I also agree that brawl's fair was better, I always sd with falco whenever I accidentally use fair in pm. :L

 

[Spire]

Clone (Super Smash Bros.): A character whose moveset begins as a copy of another character.

As far as I can tell, Mewtwo and Roy are the only actual clones. There's definitely evidence suggesting (and possibly proving) that the likes of Luigi, Falco, Lucas, and Ganondorf are clones. WHO KNOWS, maybe Mario, Fox, Ness, and Captain Falcon are the clones!

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Yeah I remember reading somewhere that falco was the first character they developed for project m. But I also agree that brawl's fair was better, I always sd with falco whenever I accidentally use fair in pm. :L

PP uses fair to pretty good effect in this particular set. There's a neat fair combo to start off the first match and a handful of others following (great one in game 3).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8iTKxosywts
And set 2 is a pretty good example, as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eoob08ssmvs
Melee fair is secretly a good move. It's hard to use, for sure, but it would be a shame to see it taken out when there are hints at a potential that hasn't really been unlocked yet. At the very least it's more fun to watch creative fair combos than run of the mill Falco pillaring time and again.

 

[Phan7om]

Clones IMO share more than 3 moves that look similar. Thats why I always thought Mario, Doc, and Luigi, for example, were clones. Some characters have very similar animations for moves that I dont consider clones at all, considering their playstyles are so much more different as well as the different properties for the move.

For Example:
Zelda > Peach - Dash Attack
Kirby > MK - Up-throw and D-throwg
Samus > Sheik - Up-Air
Samus > Falcon - Up-Tilt
Mewtwo > Wolf > Possibly Zard - F-air

... like I said. I know none of the characters I listed above are clones. Its just that a lot of the cast have moves with similar animations, but different properties... like a lot of actual clones posess. Thats why I said more than 3 of those.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Clones IMO share more than 3 moves that look similar.

3? not 4? or 5?
Why not 2 and a half?

 

[Malion]

Mewtwo
Solid Snake




.. thats what you meant by clone right?

 

[Phan7om]

3? not 4? or 5?
Why not 2 and a half?

More than 3, meaning 4 or more. Thats just me tho.

 

[Spralwers]

Well, technically some were buffs in disguise. Falco's FSmash had far more kill potential and Ganon's USmash was more reliable, though I believe I find brawl falco fair better than Melee fair. Though, I'm sure Falco was the first character to be "melee-ified" for the P:M.

I would've preferred Brawl USmash for Ganon. While you can't chain two hits for 40%+ damage or hit people with your crotch and send them flying sideways, it comes faster which would make it more useful for DACUS, platform pressure from below, and a follow up to dthrow (uthrow on spaces) allowing you to kill up instead of to the side all the time. Plus in brawl it dealt 23%, still pretty amazing.

 

[The_NZA]

I would've preferred Brawl USmash for Ganon. While you can't chain two hits for 40%+ damage or hit people with your crotch and send them flying sideways, it comes faster which would make it more useful for DACUS, platform pressure from below, and a follow up to dthrow (uthrow on spaces) allowing you to kill up instead of to the side all the time. Plus in brawl it dealt 23%, still pretty amazing.

It might have been a good OOS option too?

 

[Spralwers]

It might have been a good OOS option too?

Probably not. Comes out on frame 11 according to the brawl hitbox data (whereas current melee style usmash comes out on frame 13).

 

[Bleck]

Fox and Falco are clones in Melee and Project M. Fox and Falco are not clones in Brawl.

 

[Aenglaan]

A large percentage of the moveset has to be identical or very similar to another character. Any sort of clones in the P:M have been modified to the point that its unclear which ones are clones anymore.
While Falco is a clone of Fox, Roy and T. Link were a clones of Marth and Link, for example, but significant changes to their movesets make them less of clones. Characters that aren't clones at all, though, are characters like Wolf (the only thing he shares with Fox and Falco are similar specials, everything else is different).

 

[Xinc]

Fox and Falco are clones in Melee and Project M. Fox and Falco are not clones in Brawl.

Now we're getting into the territory of semi-clones...