What do I do against you

[WafBaf]

I've been struggling against Cloud for some time now. I'm relatively new and Cloud's the only character that I almost never beat. Now that I play coffin I've had more success but whenever I play falcon or greninja or fox he wrecks me. I know how to dash - shield without the end lag of the dash, but it doesn't help much. Can you give me general tips on how to beat cloud? General tips are better than specific match up tips but they would help too

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd say you should train your Corrin because, unlike the other charaters you mentioned, he/she has a range advantage against Cloud and, as far as my experience goes, he seems to struggle against people who can outrange him.

 

[~Daniee]

Cloud is very weak to characters with a good edge guard game (assuming Cloud doesn't have Limit) characters like Sheik have a very strong advantage against him because Sheik can run off f-air and be completely safe while stopping Cloud's recovery in it's tracks (once again, assuming Cloud doesn't have Limit).
You mentioned you main Greninja, Greninja is well known to be one of Cloud's worst matchups because of the whole edgeguarding thing and Greninja's fully charged projectile can carry Cloud offstage. Deal knockback, which easily sets up for an edge guard kill (Unless, once again, Cloud doeasn't have Limit).

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Try not to take this the wrong way, but This is the Cloud boards. We are only here to Discuss and help people who play Cloud so that they can properly face others. It makes no sense then for you to expect help from us.

If you want help, go to the character board assigned to the character you play and ask them for advice when versing Cloud.

There's no problem going to different threads and talking about various topics. It just doesn't make sense for people who primarily main a character and practice/Improve on said character to give you tips on how to beat them, when they are busy trying to do the opposite...get where i'm going with this? Again don't take it the wrong way just trying to give you some advice because if this was the Link boards they'd chew you out for that.

Aside from the fact that we have no reason or motivation to help you, we aren't even in the best position to be helping you. This being the Cloud boards and all, you can expect us to know a lot about Cloud and how to use Cloud to beat other characters like yours. However when it comes to using your character to beat ours, the people on your character's board are naturally going to be in a better position to give advice, so again, go there and ask them instead.

 

[WafBaf]

Try not to take this the wrong way, but This is the Cloud boards. We are only here to Discuss and help people who play Cloud so that they can properly face others. It makes no sense then for you to expect help from us.

If you want help, go to the character board assigned to the character you play and ask them for advice when versing Cloud.

There's no problem going to different threads and talking about various topics. It just doesn't make sense for people who primarily main a character and practice/Improve on said character to give you tips on how to beat them, when they are busy trying to do the opposite...get where i'm going with this? Again don't take it the wrong way just trying to give you some advice because if this was the Link boards they'd chew you out for that.

Aside from the fact that we have no reason or motivation to help you, we aren't even in the best position to be helping you. This being the Cloud boards and all, you can expect us to know a lot about Cloud and how to use Cloud to beat other characters like yours. However when it comes to using your character to beat ours, the people on your character's board are naturally going to be in a better position to give advice, so again, go there and ask them instead.

No I don't get what you're saying. It's not like we're competing against each other right now, I'm just asking for some tips. You don't have a secret strategy that will ruin every Cloud's game if it would be leaked... It really doesn't matter if you tell me how to beat him, unless I'm going to play against you in a tournament.

Also, as Cloud mains, you guys probably know his weaknesses better than anyone. I don't play one specific character all the time , I play most of them, so I'm not going to ask this question in every single character forum and request specific match up help. I'm just a FG scrub who needs help against Cloud in general, that's all.

 

[Splebel]

No I don't get what you're saying. It's not like we're competing against each other right now, I'm just asking for some tips. You don't have a secret strategy that will ruin every Cloud's game if it would be leaked... It really doesn't matter if you tell me how to beat him, unless I'm going to play against you in a tournament.

Also, as Cloud mains, you guys probably know his weaknesses better than anyone. I don't play one specific character all the time , I play most of them, so I'm not going to ask this question in every single character forum and request specific match up help. I'm just a FG scrub who needs help against Cloud in general, that's all.

I've noticed that certain boards tend to have different personalities and that's pretty interesting. People on the Link Board tend to be jerks to outsiders, Sheik Board welcome everyone unless they are only there to complain, etc. That guy is from the Link Board so don't take his attitude towards you as a reflection of the Cloud Board as a whole.

However as a person who mostly fights Cloud than plays him, he doesn't like to grab and since Corrin has a huge and strong counter, you can use it to great effect. Don't spam it though. Edgeguarding is definitely the way to go though. Try using his projectile as cloud is coming down and try to gimp with nair or something.

For Greninja, using hydro pump destroys his recovery. Fox can laser spam Cloud if he doesn't have limit since Cloud is too slow to chase him and Fox can edgeguard Cloud as well.

 

[WafBaf]

I've noticed that certain boards tend to have different personalities and that's pretty interesting. People on the Link Board tend to be jerks to outsiders, Sheik Board welcome everyone unless they are only there to complain, etc. That guy is from the Link Board so don't take his attitude towards you as a reflection of the Cloud Board as a whole.

However as a person who mostly fights Cloud than plays him, he doesn't like to grab and since Corrin has a huge and strong counter, you can use it to great effect. Don't spam it though. Edgeguarding is definitely the way to go though. Try using his projectile as cloud is coming down and try to gimp with nair or something.

For Greninja, using hydro pump destroys his recovery. Fox can laser spam Cloud if he doesn't have limit since Cloud is too slow to chase him and Fox can edgeguard Cloud as well.

Thanks! It's kinda weird that people are so different on different forums... Although I imagine most Link mains are jerks, I hate playing against this character.

Shielding and grabbing Clouds seems to work for me, I had a bad time playing Falcon but as soon as I learned that Cloud's very weak to shiels I started baiting attacks and grabbing him. Thanks for the help

 

[CrimsonRick117]

I've noticed that certain boards tend to have different personalities and that's pretty interesting. People on the Link Board tend to be jerks to outsiders, Sheik Board welcome everyone unless they are only there to complain, etc. That guy is from the Link Board so don't take his attitude towards you as a reflection of the Cloud Board as a whole.

Thanks! It's kinda weird that people are so different on different forums... Although I imagine most Link mains are jerks, I hate playing against this character.

I don't speak for the entire Link boards for starters, secondly I'm apart of multiple threads and while it's true that most threads tend to have different personalities I was simply Warning you. There's no problem with asking for help as the smash community ( for the most part ) is willing to help each other out. My post was more of a warning if anything as I made the mistake before and got into a flame war for it. While on that subject if you really want to know how Cloud works or want tips on some of his moves I would suggest checking out the Cloud meta game thread or the Cloud matchup discussion thread. This thread you created is pointless and especially the title comes off as ignorant hence my first comment so please don’t confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am, and my attitude depends on who you are. With all that being said you're more than welcomed to comment on the social thread as everyone there is very down to earth unlike other boards so don't let my comment ruin your Smash Boards experience.

 

[-m0]

Cloud isn't as vulnerable to water gimping as you think.

It's more of a Mac type stituation where our recovery is so short that we either snap or we end up just below the edge and grab after the animation. Should you have to use it above the edge, just do the downward strike and sweetspot from there.

However, you should definitely try to abuse Cloud's recovery if you can, Greninja's disjointed smashes and fair have pretty much the same range as our sword because Cloud doesn't stretch his damn arms when he attacks, try using that a little more if you're struggling with the disjoints.
Fox may also be good if you abuse our combo vulnerability and vulnerability to nair and even shine offstage. However, try to avoid upb or you'll eat a mean fair or nair, or a dair if we feel cheeky.
Falcon...? I guess try to pressure him and stay inside Cloud's optimal range.

But yeah, like CrimsonRick117 said, maybe read the matchup thread? I think we've already discussed Falcon there, and if your questions aren't answered, post in the social thread/matchup thread. I personally think you'll noticed more if you post in the Social; I know I never check the non-stickied threads created since they're usually stuff like this.

Thanks! It's kinda weird that people are so different on different forums... Although I imagine most Link mains are jerks, I hate playing against this character.
/QUOTE]
Chill man. I think one of the main reasons that Link mains are hostile to outsiders is that they get sh*t like this all the time lol. Although I must admit some of the Link boards seem just hostile and insulting by nature, no offense to Crimson, he's not one of those people...

 

[KingBIG]

Since this is for glory we are talking about.. lol.. Really just learn to gimp his recovery, Any move with slight knock back if cloud is level with or, Below the stage will end him. Other then that its simply getting him off stage is usually the hardest part. Much like Mack, Cloud is a Stage bully. But if your Grab game is good. As stated above. Shield grabbing his attacks are the way to go. (I've notice a lot of FG clouds like to Dash attack) and don't get caught in his Juggles.

The best way I've learned to deal with FG clouds, Is shield there Up B- on a low recovery and jab or Tilt them back away. If they recover low enough to avoid an out of shield tilt or Jab. Usually a quick D-tilt (Depending on the character) will smack him away before he grabs the edge usually resulting in a trade. Hi recovery's on the other hand can be abit more problematic because he can Mix up his approach options.

Give it some time man, Im you'll be trolling Cloud in no time.

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

Try not to take this the wrong way, but This is the Cloud boards. We are only here to Discuss and help people who play Cloud so that they can properly face others. It makes no sense then for you to expect help from us.

Well, who would know Cloud better than the Cloud boards? lt makes perfect sense. Why ask your history teacher about China when you can actually travel there? Why be a little **** when you can try to be a nice guy and maybe make a friend?

But yeah. Momentum based character. Enjoys being onstage. Hates offstage unless he's edgeguarding you (dair and nair can probably screw with Dragon Ascent, Hydro Pump, and Falcon Dive). He's perfect weight for comboing, so milking out as much damage and positioning as you can will be important. Juggles also give him a tough time, something Corrin excels at. A lot of this Anti-Cloud stuff applies a bit to Corrin too, so be a little careful.

• Toss Cloud up.
• Keep him up.
• Fsmash his landing.
• Profit.

Or:

• Throw Cloud off.
• Hit him, like, twice.
• Profit.

The problem with that is actually being in a position to throw him off, which relies on you outplaying him a bit.

Also, don't be afraid of the limit being charged. Him getting it at start is actually detrimental to him, since it makes him fall faster, making him even more susceptible to combos and juggles and it cuts off some utility by wasting the charge when you use a special. Plus, he can no longer force you to approach with limit, a very nice thing to have.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Well, who would know Cloud better than the Cloud boards? lt makes perfect sense. Why ask your history teacher about China when you can actually travel there? Why be a little **** when you can try to be a nice guy and maybe make a friend?

Kind of late to reply there huh? I've refrained from commenting because I realized my mistake, but then you come along bringing it back up which was unnecessary. Then you resort to name calling, but proceed to tell me to "be a nice guy and maybe make a friend"? kind of contradicting yourself there huh?. Also have you read my following post?

There's no problem with asking for help as the smash community ( for the most part ) is willing to help each other out. My post was more of a warning if anything as I made the mistake before and got into a flame war for it. While on that subject if you really want to know how Cloud works or want tips on some of his moves I would suggest checking out the Cloud meta game thread or the Cloud matchup discussion thread. This thread you created is pointless and especially the title comes off as ignorant hence my first comment so please don’t confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am, and my attitude depends on who you are. With all that being said you're more than welcomed to comment on the social thread as everyone there is very down to earth unlike other boards so don't let my comment ruin your Smash Boards experience.

I don't take back what I said when I mentioned that this thread was indeed pointless and that the title of the thread seemed ignorant. The original poster could of gotten his answer by simply visiting the Meta game thread or the Match up discussion, but I do admit to maybe coming off as a little harsh at first. So for future reference please don't quote or tag me on this thread anymore i'd appreciate it.

 

[-m0]

• Toss Cloud up.
• Keep him up.
• Fsmash his landing.
• Profit.

I mean, Cloud's landing options are like not actually that bad, he can fastfall fair, or just cover himself with nair. fade back with Blade Beam land with uair or AC dair. Or just drift to edge and Climhazzard They're not bad by any means

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

Kind of late to reply there huh? I've refrained from commenting because I realized my mistake, but then you come along bringing it back up which was unnecessary. Then you resort to name calling, but proceed to tell me to "be a nice guy and maybe make a friend"? kind of contradicting yourself there huh?. Also have you read my following post?

Wow, you're so right. Sorry, l just saw your initial comment and got upset. You're right.

I mean, Cloud's landing options are like not actually that bad, he can fastfall fair, or just cover himself with nair. fade back with Blade Beam land with uair or AC dair. Or just drift to edge and Climhazzard They're not bad by any means

Oh, you're right too. So much l'm overlooking. l would say just perfect shield the stuff and go on as planned, but would you get the (weaker than expected) punish out before the Cloud lands?

Nothing like learning about how ignorant you are from others, huh? Sorry for wasting your time.

Now watch as you all try and explain "Oh, but you were just trying to help, no big deal". Don't care, l messed up, l should fix that. Come to think of it, it's a problem that l also have in Smash some, but you stopped reading this a long time ago.

 

[MockRock]

I'd say you should train your Corrin because, unlike the other charaters you mentioned, he/she has a range advantage against Cloud and, as far as my experience goes, he seems to struggle against people who can outrange him.

I disagree with this, I think that Cloud has the advantage against Corrin. The two characters play in somewhat similar styles, but Cloud is faster, more efficient, and has an "unfair" quality (Limit) that Corrin doesn't.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I disagree with this, I think that Cloud has the advantage against Corrin. The two characters play in somewhat similar styles, but Cloud is faster, more efficient, and has an "unfair" quality (Limit) that Corrin doesn't.

True, but if a Corrin is good enough with his spacing to prevent you from approaching, how much good can the Limits be?

Also, Corrin also has an "unfair" quality that Cloud doesn't have; the third strongest counter in the game.

 

[MockRock]

True, but if a Corrin is good enough with his spacing to prevent you from approaching, how much good can the Limits be?

Also, Corrin also has an "unfair" quality that Cloud doesn't have; the third strongest counter in the game.

Cloud doesn't even really need Limit against Corrin, he basically just plays the same game but faster, harder hitting, and more mobile. The Limit moves are gravy. And you're right, Counter is very strong, but it's not remotely in the same league as a move that kills at 90% and covers almost all ledge options.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Cloud doesn't even really need Limit against Corrin, he basically just plays the same game but faster, harder hitting, and more mobile. The Limit moves are gravy. And you're right, Counter is very strong, but it's not remotely in the same league as a move that kills at 90% and covers almost all ledge options.

Good point.

But I still think that a Corrin with good spacing skills can give Cloud a hard time.

 

[GHNeko]

Cloud's fair gives Corrin a hard time lol. And L-Cloud makes it so that Corrin has to play on point else he'll eat limit specials and die early.

 

[Muddyk]

Cloud doesn't even really need Limit against Corrin, he basically just plays the same game but faster, harder hitting, and more mobile. The Limit moves are gravy. And you're right, Counter is very strong, but it's not remotely in the same league as a move that kills at 90% and covers almost all ledge options.

I would think since both of their neutral game is pretty good if corrin gets cloud offstage with no limit he's done. down angled fsmash would crush cloud right?

 

[GHNeko]

Corrin has to properly space Fsmash to hit below the ledge with the tip. But I think cloud can magnet hands around that.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I'm a Cloud main and I often struggle with the Cloud matchup but he isn't that hard to beat imo. I'd like to give my two cents in on this thread.

Cloud has really great frame data and he is also a great punisher. Here's the things you should do while fighting Cloud.

1. Make him burn his Limit Break.
(Most) Cloud players are always charging thier limit meter. When you approach Cloud or vice versa throw him off stage and make him burn his Limit Break.

2. Gimping Climhazzard.
Cloud doesn't Auto-Snap to the ledge like most other characters do. This is the time to punish Cloud by either doing a Down Tilt or a Down Smash near the ledge and he (probably) won't recovery.

3. He can be combo food.

4. From mid - high % you can jump out of his Cross Slash and then Punish him.

That's all I could think of at the moment. If thier is anything else or if you think I'm incorrect about all this be sure to let me know.

 

[Transform]

Cloud is one of the best characters in the game, so a well spaced cloud proves himself a strong challenge.

• The Captain falcon Cloud match-up, has almost everything favoring cloud, everything from better range to Cloud having a limit factor pressuring falcon to approach, Captain falcon being a fast faller falls into clouds combos much easier, and captain falcon having to respect clouds dair & nair when attempting to juggle at mid-high percent tho cloud doesn't really have to respect falcons aerials due to clouds brutal up-air (except Down B which will cause you to land with landing lag)
• Nearly the same goes for greninja, tho the greninja match up is a lil more balanced due to his specials give him a better edge against cloud espacially when gimping.
• if you really struggle with the match-up use Corrin who is a more favorable.

Things to remember when versing cloud

• Pressuring him off-stage and not upwards as much is vital, due to his poor recovery chucking him off-stage leaves him with not too many options, and overall he doesn't take much to edge guard.
• RESPECT HIS UP-AIR, NEVER CONTEST IT, easily his most dangerous move in his arsenal that doesn't require limit
• Clouds like to chuck out SH N-Air & FH D-air in neutral, and watch for tomhawk to grab at very early percents and dash grabs due to his D-Throw to cross slash follow up/combo to grab

I can usually handle the cloud match-up alright on for glory with the good bunch of characters no problem, by keeping this in mind.