What can't be done without claw?

[Flippy Flippersen]

Just wondering what can't be done without claw.
retreating fairs from marth is the only one I heard but I know there are more. I just want to know what else can't be done.

 

[Massive]

You can totally do retreating fairs on Marth without claw. It's actually pretty straightforward if you are practiced with tap-jumping.

I can't think of any inputs that are claw only, claw just makes some of them substantially easier. Moving your hand faster is always an alternative, albeit a hard one to implement.

 

[AirFair]

I can retreating fair with marth using c stick, but it just doesn't come out instantly after jumping is all. And I can only do it facing left tbh while jumping with x.

 

[The Soap]

I find JC-upsmash with Fox to be extremely difficult to do without using my index finger to input the jump. Some people with bigger hands may be able to do it by just jumping then using the base of their thumb to move the c-stick up, which I can do to some extent, but I find it much easier and reliable to claw for.

 

[Massive]

I find JC-upsmash with Fox to be extremely difficult to do without using my index finger to input the jump. Some people with bigger hands may be able to do it by just jumping then using the base of their thumb to move the c-stick up, which I can do to some extent, but I find it much easier and reliable to claw for.

Try pressing up on both sticks at once.

Also works for smash OoS.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

You can totally do retreating fairs on Marth without claw. It's actually pretty straightforward if you are practiced with tap-jumping.

I can't think of any inputs that are claw only, claw just makes some of them substantially easier. Moving your hand faster is always an alternative, albeit a hard one to implement.

You know, I'm actually not that against this for retreating fair. It sounds easy enough for me and I can't think of other marth specific things I wouldn't be able to do.
Let me rephrase my question then I guess, what moves require me to press a button with a simular speed as double fair to make claw the prefered way to do this of many many players?
(if there's too much of them you can say that too but I really can only think of double fair and some fox things (multishine/lasers)

 

[Sashimi]

Retreating DJC Fair with Yoshi is pretty tough to do without claw if you double tap X or Y for your DJCs.

 

[Zylo]

Leffen said something on stream about Armada not being able to do retreating floating fairs because he didn't play claw.

 

[The Soap]

Try pressing up on both sticks at once.

Also works for smash OoS.

...I cannot believe this never occurred to me.

 

[Massive]

SH Double Laser is the only one I can think of outright that is just really hard to reliably without claw.

Leffen said something on stream about Armada not being able to do retreating floating fairs because he didn't play claw.

This seems reasonable, peach's float is one of the weird situations that requires you to hold a jump button for an extended period of time.

You could do it with an interesting combination of switching which jump you're holding (tap jump to throw out the move, then back to x/y) and csticking, but claw would be far easier/more reliable in this situation.

...I cannot believe this never occurred to me.

This is why I tell people to leave tap jump on in PM.