What Can/Cant Sheik do vs Melee

[Fortress]

We've barely scratched anything that this thread can and should cover. Specific matchup knowledge, viability of Sheik's throw angles against the completed cast, counters to said cast's options, and so on. We've covered moveset and mechanical differences between Melee and PM Sheik, but nothing beyond that.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

So off topic. But, considering we've technically covered every character difference Sheik has, there isn't much left to say on the topic. This is one of those threads that gets a direct answer and then disappears, the only difference being we've made it take much longer to disappear, and created a wall of posts that need never be viewed by others.

Well, to be fair, not everything has been covered.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sheik_(PM)#Changes_from_Melee_to_PM

Keep in mind that this may not be entirely accurate, there have been a few just straight up wrong things on here before.

 

[Drodeka]

I definitely spoke too soon, as I don't play Sheik :x
The above post should cover most of what is left, and specific matchup knowledge would take a long time to cover, so I think it would be better left for later threads he could post when he actually plays more matchups and has questions regarding them.

 

[Deleted member]

Wut.
Like, really, what?

If you mean don't play Sheik like you would in melee, why? This game works almost identically *to melee, so why fix what isn't broken?

At a low level, sure it transfers well enough. Once you're better at the game, it doesn't though. Sheik's entire game is based around her downthrow in melee. This is immediately evident if you compare mew2king and kirbykaze against the PAL sheik players like ice and overtriforce. PM sheik is the same way, but you can think of it as a third permutation of the character.

this game is, first and foremost, all about the grabs. no surprises there. but pm sheik's grabs end up playing out like melee marths where it's more about keeping the opponent in a bad position than it is about doing guaranteed but otherwise short combos. this changes everything about sheik's punishment game so much that you might as well just start over. this is further exacerbated because so many characters can now challenge sheik's tilts in neutral that simply throwing out disrespect ftilts to disrupt an opponent with momentum is usually pretty bad even though it was a decent idea in melee. she just doesn't interact with the opponent the same way she does in melee when you know what you're doing.

ironically, marth got the exact opposite treatment, where pm makes marth fthrow pretty much guaranteed to combo on almost any DI and his dair has less lag so sometimes you can just spike your way out of a juggle. those little details matter a lot at higher end play.

 

[Deleted member]

crashboards/10

 

[foxygrandpa]

Depending on the matchup, melee sheik and pm sheik are different, but she still retains a lot of fundamentals. The thing about melee sheik is that she was the reason about 70% of the cast was unviable, because of her dthrow. By switching it with this new DI system, it's hard to say whether or not she's better or worse (bthrow usmash is sexy) but it does make a lot of her matchups worse, which in my opinion, is what makes her feel different from melee shiek. The crouch cancel physics in this game are more similar to brawls than melee's, making crouch canceling a more viable option for and against her, which I think would lead her to play more defensively. Some of the buffs they did with her were interesting, like changing fthrow's knockback to melee's bthrow, but they are not enough to make her as well rounded as she was in melee. Now that she is one of the few characters lacking a neutral game (which she should be), she needs to play a lot heavier on punishment with grabs than straight combos. Also, down special is a real move now, making up for a lot of things she lacked such as recovery, or a chain grab on starfox. Zelda is a lot more helpful on final destination on starfox, making it not as bad as a pick against them.

I've been practicing pit as a secondary since about novemeber and I'm maining him now, and as strange as it is to say, I really do think he plays a lot like melee sheik, possibly even more than pm sheik does.

 

[famous hair]

As far as mechanics, I may just be bad but I haven't been able to do the vanish edgehog in PM (JC a vanish while dashing at the edge so that Sheik does two explosions into a ledgegrab). Not that it's really an important Sheik tech but it's flashy and nice to have. With Vanish being buffed though, I can see why this may have been nerfed (or just not implemented yet.)

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

backthrow->back air
it pleases me