Ways to mix things up?

[DarkLeviathan89]

Alright, so I've been practicing with Yoshi for some time now, and I've been experimenting with a lot of things. I just wanted to hear input from all of you with how to tweak your playstyles. For mindgames I guess you can say, but in the end, I'm just trying to become a less predictable player by utilizing as much of Yoshi's arsenal as I can.

So with that out of the way...

1) Shieldgrabs. Yes, Yoshi's shield has the fewest out of shield options IIRC, but I've been toying with how it does as a surprise grab. Depending on who the opponent is and how they're approaching, I think it can be good as something out of left field. With how vulnerable if you miss though, it's not something you could or should use often.

2) Egg Lay. I remember seeing a topic on this before, and how egg lay is an underused move of Yoshi's. But other than the fact that it gives IIRC 7% damage when fresh, what else can we use it for? Breathing room? DLC egg lay? A quick bair or egg toss?

3) Grabs. Yeah, shieldgrabs are included here, but I've realized that I'm using grabs a lot more often now, especially with all the chain grabs and grab release things that Yoshi has available (most of which I still need to learn >_<). Running grabs, though laggy, are still useful, and pivot grabs are still amazing.

There's more I'm sure, but this is really just a rant/brainstorming session for me. I'd love to hear input from everyone else though.

 

[Ryusuta]

I'd like to first begin by saying that it's always nice to see people trying new things and experimenting with characters. It's the way strategies are revolutionized, and I wholeheartedly encourage you to keep it up. You'll never know just what you might find with a little diligence.

1) Shieldgrabs. Yes, Yoshi's shield has the fewest out of shield options IIRC, but I've been toying with how it does as a surprise grab. Depending on who the opponent is and how they're approaching, I think it can be good as something out of left field. With how vulnerable if you miss though, it's not something you could or should use often.

See, the problem with shield grabbing (ESPECIALLY with Yoshi) is just that - it leaves him incredibly open. There are almost no situations in which a shield grab is A: failsafe, and B: the ideal technique to use.

Of all of Yoshi's grabs, his shield grab is the slowest to come out and leaves him the most open. Although it is really his only viable out-of-shield option in a lot of cases, that doesn't mean it should be used.

Quite the opposite, in fact. As painful as it is, Yoshi players since the very first Smash Bros. have pretty much had to get around the fact that out-of-shield fighting is simply not in the cards for Yoshi.

Am I going to say that you should NEVER use a shield grab with Yoshi? Probably not; because there are always exceptions. But the problem is that the risk-to-reward ratio is almost always unbelievably skewed against taking this option.

2) Egg Lay. I remember seeing a topic on this before, and how egg lay is an underused move of Yoshi's. But other than the fact that it gives IIRC 7% damage when fresh, what else can we use it for? Breathing room? DLC egg lay? A quick bair or egg toss?

Actually, I would say that this is the move that needs the most experimenting with, as it generally goes so unused that it could mean some serious wasted potential.

Yoshi players already have one hard-bound, exceptionally important Egg Lay use, and that's as a counter to Meta Knight's Mach Tornado. It's one of the few moves that can break through MT that comes out fast enough to POSSIBLY be used on reaction (though this isn't always the case, especially at point-blank range). Better, it stops Meta Knight's speed and momentum, which are two of his more devastating attributes.

There isn't a LOT that can follow up a successful Egg Lay, and there are usually more damaging options, but yes, I'd say this move could use more experimentation.

The Egg Lay Footstool technique could definitely see some more use once its perfected and brought into more practical situations.

3) Grabs. Yeah, shieldgrabs are included here, but I've realized that I'm using grabs a lot more often now, especially with all the chain grabs and grab release things that Yoshi has available (most of which I still need to learn >_<). Running grabs, though laggy, are still useful, and pivot grabs are still amazing.

Grabs are certainly an important part of Yoshi's game (especially in combination with his pokes, aerials, and Egg Toss), but I wouldn't say that this is underutilized at all.

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

I'd like to first begin by saying that it's always nice to see people trying new things and experimenting with characters. It's the way strategies are revolutionized, and I wholeheartedly encourage you to keep it up. You'll never know just what you might find with a little diligence.

Thanks. I figured I'm not exactly adept at techs like the DR and such, so I figured I'm gonna try finding out the best uses for Yoshi's regular moves.

See, the problem with shield grabbing (ESPECIALLY with Yoshi) is just that - it leaves him incredibly open. There are almost no situations in which a shield grab is A: failsafe, and B: the ideal technique to use.

Of all of Yoshi's grabs, his shield grab is the slowest to come out and leaves him the most open. Although it is really his only viable out-of-shield option in a lot of cases, that doesn't mean it should be used.

Quite the opposite, in fact. As painful as it is, Yoshi players since the very first Smash Bros. have pretty much had to get around the fact that out-of-shield fighting is simply not in the cards for Yoshi.

Am I going to say that you should NEVER use a shield grab with Yoshi? Probably not; because there are always exceptions. But the problem is that the risk-to-reward ratio is almost always unbelievably skewed against taking this option.

Yeah, shieldgrabs are probably way to risky with Yoshi. Very situational, and the reward might not be worth the risk, but considering Yoshi's lack of out of shield options I figure it's good to keep in mind. I almost forgot you could shield grab in the first place lol.

Actually, I would say that this is the move that needs the most experimenting with, as it generally goes so unused that it could mean some serious wasted potential.

Yoshi players already have one hard-bound, exceptionally important Egg Lay use, and that's as a counter to Meta Knight's Mach Tornado. It's one of the few moves that can break through MT that comes out fast enough to POSSIBLY be used on reaction (though this isn't always the case, especially at point-blank range). Better, it stops Meta Knight's speed and momentum, which are two of his more devastating attributes.

There isn't a LOT that can follow up a successful Egg Lay, and there are usually more damaging options, but yes, I'd say this move could use more experimentation.

The Egg Lay Footstool technique could definitely see some more use once its perfected and brought into more practical situations.

Egg Lay Footstool seems really, really situational to me... I have no idea if I could ever pull something like that off in a real match. Heck, I can't even do it in practice, lol. Didn't know that it stops MK's tornado though, that's definitely something to keep in mind.

Grabs are certainly an important part of Yoshi's game (especially in combination with his pokes, aerials, and Egg Toss), but I wouldn't say that this is underutilized at all.

Yeah, I guess I wasn't trying to say that it's underutilized, but that I'm really learning how good they are now. I'd say I'm abusing them sometimes now, lol. Grabs are too good.

Thanks for the reply 0rion. I'd write more, but I need to sleep. Class early tomorrow. >_<

 

[Naucitos]

I occasionaly substitute fairs for bairs when approaching, and if people are approaching i occasionally do a retreating fair, since landing it often leads to an upsmash or upair

 

[Bwett]

I've also been trying to change up my game with some of my crew members who are getting used to my yoshi. Here are a few ideas:

Instead of Raring bair, do bair while still facing them and just go through them.

Jab->anything else besides jab, working on downb

One thing that is really trippy to people is pretend you are doing a SH retreating fair, but move back towards the char when you reach the top of your jump. Usually baits them to drop their shield

Fair while they are on ground -> uair