Wavedashing with Samus

[Flashed_Inferno]

Wavedashing is a well-known technique, but what are the uses for wavedashing when playing Samus?

 

[Narpas_sword]

oos.
positioning.

just like everyone else =/

more specific. pokes with ftilt / jab.
gettign in with smashes.

moving about because shes slow as **** on land.

 

[pooch182]

It's her core method of movement, and it's generally used for spacing properly in the neutral. Combining WDing with well spaced jabs, ftilts, and dsmashes makes for a very potent Samus.

Basically, use it to move faster, and space properly. WD back dsmash is god tier​

 

[Flashed_Inferno]

Could it be used to get away from your opponents to zone them out from the other side?

I don't know if ESAM does that...

 

[Narpas_sword]

yes. it could

 

[ph00tbag]

I don't really see high level Sami cross the stage with wavedashes in order to make space for missiles. Partially because most characters will be able to keep up with you, and you'll have given up your positional advantage, but also because Samus isn't really that strong from that far away. It's better just to stay roughly in the mid-range. Use wavedash to stay in that range, or for jukes or oos punishes, instead.

 

[Litt]

I know the perfect way to make an intro guide to samus :D, take all your guys responses to very questions like this that get asked over and over for a beginning guide and then sticky that

 

[Chill1208]

Whenever you are walking/running anywhere and you hit an attack button you have to wait for the movement animation frames to resolve before your attack animation frames come out, basically it takes time for her to stop walking before she can attack, however if you are wavedashing you are considered standing the whole time so all of your attacks come out a few frames faster, and this whole game basically comes down to who's attack that is in range will come out first and allow the player to hopefully start a combo, the amount of recovery frames from movement isn't a lot but when it comes down to who's jab is gonna come out first it matters, you should never walk anywhere wavedashing is faster and safer, also another thing I like to do is while wavedashing backwards when your opponent goes to attack hold jump a little longer in one of your wavedashes and then go into an air dodge/grapple allowing you to quickly punish any of your opponents attacks that have a lot of recovery frames, especially marth, then do a missel cancel as you land on the ground

 

[pooch182]

Whenever you are walking/running anywhere and you hit an attack button you have to wait for the movement animation frames to resolve before your attack animation frames come out, basically it takes time for her to stop walking before she can attack, however if you are wavedashing you are considered standing the whole time so all of your attacks come out a few frames faster, and this whole game basically comes down to who's attack that is in range will come out first and allow the player to hopefully start a combo, the amount of recovery frames from movement isn't a lot but when it comes down to who's jab is gonna come out first it matters, you should never walk anywhere wavedashing is faster and safer, also another thing I like to do is while wavedashing backwards when your opponent goes to attack hold jump a little longer in one of your wavedashes and then go into an air dodge/grapple allowing you to quickly punish any of your opponents attacks that have a lot of recovery frames, especially marth, then do a missel cancel as you land on the ground

Telling someone to never walk and always wavedash isn't smart. Walking is a massively important mechanic of the game, and it allows us to perform PC Hogs, pivot tilts out of movement, and generally be intensely precise with our spacing. Not to mention, it's got mindgaming properties when applicable. While WDing is incredibly safe and amazing, it doesn't completely invalidate other methods of movement. It's not always about who is faster, but it IS always about who is spacing better.

You are only partially correct in saying that it takes a few more frames to throw out an attack while moving with methods other than WDing. Walking allows you to immediately throw out a move, whereas being in a dash requires you to stop all movement to throw an attack, otherwise it will register as a dash attack. Basically, you can run into WD into place, or just run into crouch before throwing out a move.

Furthermore, you can't airdodge into a zair and then missile cancel, as you go into special fall after throwing out your grapple and not connecting to anything. Zair is honestly a poor option for punishing a laggy attack, as it just lets the opponent deal with small hitstun and return to neutral while you're zairing. Optimal punishes will be different depending on who your opponent is playing, their percentage, etc. Experience will help you determine what the best option is, but Zairing doesn't really lead into anything for the most part.

 

[Chill1208]

my bad idk why i said missle cancel obv your dead in the air after the zair but the air dodge-zair is possible, and I prefer to use zair there because of the long range it allows me to airdoge away from them and hit them with it to help give me a little more spacing

 

[pooch182]

The problem is that you're choosing to zair, which is inherently defensive in it's properties, as an offensive means of punishing the opponent. If you outspace your opponent and they commit to an attack, it can be punished more effectively with a grab, a down smash, an fsmash, etc. There are FAR better options to punish an opponent than using Zair in an offensive manner.

You're correct in recognizing the utility of Zair's immense range. It's great for maintaining solid spacing and positioning, as well as for retreating from mid-range with a hitbox. Use it defensively to stop approaches, and it has some offensive use, like if you land one and your opponent doesn't put shield up, you can push them backwards and establish stage control. It just isn't meant to be a punishing move, as it doesn't lead into any sort of combos, and it does like 4%.

 

[Chill1208]

You're right it doesn't do a lot of damage. I don't mean to use it to rack up damage or to start up a combo; but if your opponent is constantly rushing you down, when you see them go for an attack while you're trying to wavedash backwards to get away from them, you can shorthop away from your opponent while facing them, airdodge away from your opponent and zair. I've almost always found that this puts them in enough hitstun, with the recovery frames from their move, and the hitstun from the zair to move you far enough away to give you the proper zoning to start spamming missals, or enough time to do a superwavedash to the otherside of the stage, it doesn't do a lot of damage but it gives you just a few more frames to get away while you are already moving backwards and it's something that can be done after air dodging away from one of your opponents attacks so it is essentially a punishing move (the amount of frames it takes for the grapple to come out make it almost impossible to use as anything other than a punishing move), and in some circumstances I've found it to be the only way I know to get away from someone who's very effectively maintaining a close combat zone.

 

[ph00tbag]

Whenever you are walking/running anywhere and you hit an attack button you have to wait for the movement animation frames to resolve before your attack animation frames come out, basically it takes time for her to stop walking before she can attack, however if you are wavedashing you are considered standing the whole time so all of your attacks come out a few frames faster, and this whole game basically comes down to who's attack that is in range will come out first and allow the player to hopefully start a combo, the amount of recovery frames from movement isn't a lot but when it comes down to who's jab is gonna come out first it matters, you should never walk anywhere wavedashing is faster and safer, also another thing I like to do is while wavedashing backwards when your opponent goes to attack hold jump a little longer in one of your wavedashes and then go into an air dodge/grapple allowing you to quickly punish any of your opponents attacks that have a lot of recovery frames, especially marth, then do a missel cancel as you land on the ground

This is demonstrably false. While walking, you can perform any attack. A run can be canceled with a crouch, which can be canceled with any attack. A dash can be canceled with a dash in the opposite direction, the first frame of which, you are considered standing, and can perform any attack. Literally at any point during a walk, run or dash input, you can theoretically cancel it into any grounded option, in any direction.

During a wavedash, you go through four uncancelable frames of jumpsquat, at least one frame of airdodge, and ten uncancelable frames of landfall special. The minimum is 15 frames of uninterruptable lag with a character like Samus.

Wavedashing is useful because its initial movement speed is a little faster than Samus's initial dash, and for quick movement out of shield, and a quick course change out of run. It is often even preferred because it's easier to perform than certain pivot techniques like pivot utilt, or pivot turnaround ftilts, but because of the 15 frame lag, it is in no way, shape, or form, a superior mode of locomotion, or even footsies tool.

 

[Litt]

You're right it doesn't do a lot of damage. I don't mean to use it to rack up damage or to start up a combo; but if your opponent is constantly rushing you down, when you see them go for an attack while you're trying to wavedash backwards to get away from them, you can shorthop away from your opponent while facing them, airdodge away from your opponent and zair. I've almost always found that this puts them in enough hitstun, with the recovery frames from their move, and the hitstun from the zair to move you far enough away to give you the proper zoning to start spamming missals, or enough time to do a superwavedash to the otherside of the stage, it doesn't do a lot of damage but it gives you just a few more frames to get away while you are already moving backwards and it's something that can be done after air dodging away from one of your opponents attacks so it is essentially a punishing move (the amount of frames it takes for the grapple to come out make it almost impossible to use as anything other than a punishing move), and in some circumstances I've found it to be the only way I know to get away from someone who's very effectively maintaining a close combat zone.

Dude... pretty sure you are Ben from TKO... just message me on facebook if you want to talk about these things