Wavedashing to be obsolete?

[ChivalRuse]

Hey, folks! I know many of you are aware of the notorious grounded air-doge, the advanced technique discovered by smash pioneers, adopted by the community, and frequently exploited by her competetive members; that is, the maneuvre nicknamed, endearingly, the "wavedash" and knighted, even, for its incredible usefulness (wavelanding and waveshining are some of its notable talents).

But with Brawl just around the corner, we find ourselves questioning whether or not our beloved (and flashy) move will stay in town any longer. Will the wavedash "glitch" be repaired, or will the mechanics of the game dictate that it must simply remain?

I am almost entirely and indomitably a Fox player and find the waveshine one of the more glorious aspects to playing Mr. McCloud. It is necessary for the success of a colossal number of my combos and is instrumental in fakeouts, indispensable for a variety of combos, and fun when used to edgehog. It is a fairly easy trick to pull off (always comes out) and I would like to know if anyone has had news of its possible reappearance or annihilation, courtesy of the makers' dauntless purge-all capabilities.

So, please, tell me, will the wavedash be obsolete by the time Brawl is out, or will it still thrive? Does anybody think that the "wavedash" will be removed from the next SSB?

Always,
Ruse

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

The thing is, we really don't know if it will become obsolete or not, but I'm pretty sure it should return considering that it isn't a glitch.

 

[Icephoenix231]

It's not quite a glitch...but I don't think it was how the game developers intended the game to be...my opinion, I do believe it will be removed. If it was meant to be in the game, it would probably be in the instruction manual/training/you'd probably see a CPU do it once in over 6 years... and seeing as how the game's programmed, about 20-50 lines of code would end wave dashing once and for all.

Phoenix sez Peace out Wavedashing.

 

[GildedPunch]

This is a pretty old subject by the way but what-ev? who cares?
I think It will still exist in brawl because of people like luigi who's character is known for crazy traction. so as long as traction will be in the game ( most likely will ) along with air-dodging,
then the glorious "Wavedash" will be included.

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

It's not quite a glitch...but I don't think it was how the game developers intended the game to be...my opinion, I do believe it will be removed. If it was meant to be in the game, it would probably be in the instruction manual/training/you'd probably see a CPU do it once in over 6 years... and seeing as how the game's programmed, about 20-50 lines of code would end wave dashing once and for all.

Phoenix sez Peace out Wavedashing.

You're right; it wasn't expected. But computers DO wavedash, If they accidentally airdodge into a slope, then they wavedash. It's not like it makes no sense. You create momentum in the air and land on the ground. You keep sliding due to inertia. The creators knew it was in the game after they started selling it, but they decided to keep it in the game. They've seen the results wavedashing has done for this game, and if they take it out after all it's done, I pity them for the money they'll lose.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It's not quite a glitch...but I don't think it was how the game developers intended the game to be...my opinion, I do believe it will be removed. If it was meant to be in the game, it would probably be in the instruction manual/training/you'd probably see a CPU do it once in over 6 years... and seeing as how the game's programmed, about 20-50 lines of code would end wave dashing once and for all.

Phoenix sez Peace out Wavedashing.

There are several unintended things that can't be covered by an instruction manual.

It's just the same in every fighting game. Just like in Guilty Gear ; Jump Install wasn't an intentional technique, but it's used commonly today.

The technique should remain in the game as an easter egg for those who have mastered the basic mechanics of smash bros. Just like L-cancel.

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

I think we win.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

ZOMG Computers can wavedash!!?!/!/!?1!?

Wavedashing wasn't intentionally put into the game as an everyday technique. The programmers just didn't remove the traction a character has when they air dodge into the ground.

I think wavedashing will return to Brawl.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Icephoenix231]

Ehhh, I still doubt the entire thing...

I just don't seer it returning...and I guess I'm just dumb and have never seen a computer wavedash...

If it reappears in brawl, think it will get gimped at all?

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

If any advanced techniques get gimped in any way you can most likely expect less players.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That was my suspicion, gildedpunch, which is why wavelanding actually makes some sense. However, with the wavedash, the number of frames into a jump required before an air dodge could be input might easily be tweaked enough to disable the standard method.

 

[Takeshi245]

It could be left in, but it might be tweaked just like they did with Z-cancelling to L-cancelling.

 

[XDead Sexy]

I Personally dont know how to wavedash or have took the time to learn either but i think if they take it out the game it would still be fun and enjoyable for most people Either way im going to get this game and love it.

 

[Mr.GAW]

I liked your introduction...

It certainly seems like the game is being made easier, what with the hold button combos and roll --> edgegrab.

I dunno, since I play luigi, I'll be pissed if it's gone, but it doesn't look good.

 

[Icephoenix231]

Actually, if they shoudl remove anything..they should allow 2 chars to grab onto an edge...so the gay edgehopping can't happen >.>

 

[ChivalRuse]

I liked your introduction...

It certainly seems like the game is being made easier, what with the hold button combos and roll --> edgegrab.

I dunno, since I play luigi, I'll be pissed if it's gone, but it doesn't look good.

Yes. If it is destroyed or revamped, it will suck the most for luigi players.

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

It will suck for a LOT of players. Fox, Falco (considering their reflectors aren't gimped) - in fact, it will hurt just about every character. Wavedashing always helps, even with characters like Peach.

 

[Psychoace]

I think the traction factor was taken from the weight of the character and therefore will not be changed. For the matter of actual wavedashing I highly doubt it will be removed seeing as how they would have to get rid of air dodges all together to do so.

 

[narmerguy]

They've seen the results wavedashing has done for this game, and if they take it out after all it's done, I pity them for the money they'll lose.

I'm fairly positive anyone that can or cares about wavedashing will be buying the game whether it's in or out. The 19 people that are determined not to buy it without wavedashing will have no effect on sales.

 

[GaryCXJk]

Face it, if programmers wouldn't want you to do that exploit, they would already have done so in later versions. Smash already had a version 1.1 and 1.2, so by 1.2 they could have removed the wavedash exploit.

However, many games have exploits, and many games with multiple versions, save for some PC games, do not fix this problem.

See it like this. Street Fighter 2 was the first game to include combos, but it wasn't put there intentional. By some exploit people could rack in some damage by pressing the right button combination at the right time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_(computer_and_video_games)

So, in essence, wavedashing did add to the experience. It may not be a technique Nintendo or Sakurai might have intended it to be in, but I think they do see the importance of it. Plus, I don't think they would sacrifice one exploit for another without making it look bad.

Because, look at it this way. Air dodging into a wall creates a momentum. You will just move against the wall, until the air dodge is completed. Same goes for air dodging in the floor. Air dodging in a slope is just moving against the wall, and slipping along the way. Removing this exploit means you just need to stop the character from moving any further at all, meaning the momentum against a wall would also need to be negated, so that air dodging is automatically canceled, which can be exploited by skilled characters, especially characters who can wall jump. To get rid of this exploit, you would need to make an algorithm which describes only movement to the ground gets canceled, but what about air-dodging to the side against a slope? It still counts as a wavedash.

Seriously, there is no way in hell Sakurai is arsed to fix this exploit. It just creates even more exploits, and in the end it's not profitable. You won't earn more money by removing the wavedash exploit.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Loved the way you're looking at it, Gary. That gives me some hope. What you said is logical and only confirms the fact that wavedashing is the result of physics in the game, which cannot be annulled without causing numerous, more severe, dilemmas to arise.

I believe this has fairly settled the concept of the wavedash remaining; however, it may be more difficult to effect, depending upon the noticeable discrepancies (in animation, frame array, physics, and so on) between Melee and Brawl.

 

[GaryCXJk]

Those can fixed easily.

See, Sakurai might already have anticipated in people wanting to air dodge into walls or floors, so he might have added air dodge to wall collision animations, where they would hang on to the wall until the air dodge has finished. Kind of like how martial artists use walls as a kick start, or to just break a fall by striking a very awesome pose which does nothing but add some more coolness to the movies they are featured in.

 

[lollerskater]

I think people are expecting Brawl's gameplay to be much too similar to Melee's. Remember how much deeper Melee was in comparison to the original Smash bros?

Let's pretend we're back in 2000 and the original Smash Bros has some unintended advanced technique similar to wavedashing. So everyone is arguing about whether it gets left in Melee, and some people are saying that the game won't be as good if it gets removed.

Do you realize how false the assumption is? Regardless of whether an unintended advanced technique is left in the game, it goes without saying that Melee was a much deeper and better fighting experience than the original Smash Bros was. The same will be true of Brawl, regardless of whether or not wavedashing was left in!

 

[Limey]

I reckon it'll still be in.

Considering the fact that the reason it appeared in Melee was because the air dodge sortof continued, allowing the character to slide along the floor, i don't see why the same thing won't happen this time around. Judging from the trailers the physics aren't that different.

It's a new game, so if it's not in there'll be plenty of other things for people to find.

We'll have to wait and see.

 

[mario-man]

Actually, if they shoudl remove anything..they should allow 2 chars to grab onto an edge...so the gay edgehopping can't happen >.>

You're a n00b!!! I mean it in the best way that you can . That would COMPLETELY ruin the basics of the game. Well, almost completely.......

 

[susu_atari]

Has nobody yet thought of the possibility that the directional air dodge may be removed? That would ruin your fun wouldn't it?
To be honest, I never found the directional air dodge to be all that useful, you can dodge items thrown just by pushing the button and staying in the same place, which is all I ever usually do, the little tweak in direction is pretty useless on it's own. If it wasn't for wavedashing, I probably wouldn't have bothered using it.

 

[Icephoenix231]

You're a n00b!!! I mean it in the best way that you can . That would COMPLETELY ruin the basics of the game. Well, almost completely.......

.....

Since when did the basics of the game become to make it literally, impossible to grab onto the edge?

In my opinion, if you get knocked clear of the side, and manage to use whatever skill you have in you to get all the way to where you SHOULD be able to grab the edge, then it should happen... I mean if people can just edgehop, then what's the point of even be able to hang onto the edge in the first place o_o

Now to have a person waiting for you on top of the platform, waiting to smash your brains out when you pull yourself back up... that's different

And I didn't mean exactally "allow two chars to edge hang at once.", I just think that you should be forced into more skill than an exploit... Espically when a marth sweet spot smashes you at 15-25 percent (I don't remmeber the exact number needed, but I remember it's not much", and it knocks you far enough t where you'd NEED to edgehang to get back.

But wouldnt it be funny if in Brawl, someone tried to edgehop you, and you just ended up hanging into their legs/Mario's Suspenders? XDDD Though a well timed get up would just make another edgehop/make the entire thing pointless -__-... it would be funny to play around with though.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

im pretty sure wavedashing will return. i have a really vague memory about reading this thing that sed Sakurai was gonna put most of the melee stuff into brawl. note that i sed most. but to make a point, garycxjk did that. and a really good job too

Has nobody yet thought of the possibility that the directional air dodge may be removed? That would ruin your fun wouldn't it?
To be honest, I never found the directional air dodge to be all that useful, you can dodge items thrown just by pushing the button and staying in the same place, which is all I ever usually do, the little tweak in direction is pretty useless on it's own. If it wasn't for wavedashing, I probably wouldn't have bothered using it.

actually, u can use it to get back onto the stage if yer close enough. its hard to do and i swear ive seen some pros use it. if not oh well w/e

.....

Since when did the basics of the game become to make it literally, impossible to grab onto the edge?

In my opinion, if you get knocked clear of the side, and manage to use whatever skill you have in you to get all the way to where you SHOULD be able to grab the edge, then it should happen... I mean if people can just edgehop, then what's the point of even be able to hang onto the edge in the first place o_o

Now to have a person waiting for you on top of the platform, waiting to smash your brains out when you pull yourself back up... that's different

And I didn't mean exactally "allow two chars to edge hang at once.", I just think that you should be forced into more skill than an exploit... Espically when a marth sweet spot smashes you at 15-25 percent (I don't remmeber the exact number needed, but I remember it's not much", and it knocks you far enough t where you'd NEED to edgehang to get back.

But wouldnt it be funny if in Brawl, someone tried to edgehop you, and you just ended up hanging into their legs/Mario's Suspenders? XDDD Though a well timed get up would just make another edgehop/make the entire thing pointless -__-... it would be funny to play around with though.

not to start a edgehogging thing in the WAVEDASHING thread, but its one of the really useful techs that alot of pros use. its basically meant as a last resort thing. if yer trying to smash someone out, then they could jus use the wall thech that gives u another third jump or w/e with that thing about skill getting to the edge anyway, too ****ing bad. altho the thing about grabbing onto yer opponents legs was pretty funny XD

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Wow...it's the meeting of the tourney players. Everyone is all liek...

"WAVEDASHING FTW!"

and then there's liek one squeaky voice in the back that's all like...

"no wavedashing!"

And then there's me who simply responds with...

"It looks like WDing is coming back, or some form of it, I only say this because in the videos, both Pit and Metaknight do some sort of forwards-facing-back-slide to dodge an attack and almost instanously peform an attack. People argue that those are rolls, but honestly? Those don't look like no rolls. However, unlike Melee's WDing, these mock-WDs look more smooth and fluid, almost as if they were intentionally programmed into the game itself...

Oh, and I hear you liek fier...."

*lights thread on fier.*

 

[Psychoace]

Wavecrawlings probably gonna be the new sexy.

 

[Ophelius]

... I would say something right now... But it probably wouldn't fare too well for me. Wavecrashing would be secksier!

 

[cloudz]

i wish somebody on smashboards knew a programmer who worked on melee.

then we would get all of this wavedashing glitch/noglitch discovered/undiscovered onpurpose/notonpurpose out of the way forever!

 

[ylink_underestimted]

wouldnt that risk some spoilers or w/e? but i dont think nobody would care anyway...