Wavedashing question

[ZipZopZoop]

So I've started using wavedashing in my matches but I'm not seeing a whole lot of benefit from it. Basically the only real use I get from it is if someone is running up and doing fsmash or grab then I wavedashback. If I ever try to move in closer with a wavedash or do anything other than what I said above I get punished.

What should I be using wavedash for that I am missing? I've heard people say wavedash back oos to get away from sheild pressure but all that ever does is get me punished. I've also heard of wavedash oos into rest but rest never hits as reliably from wavedash as it does from sh because on the ground you push people away. Lastly I've seen videos of hbox and he seems to wave dash really really fast where when I do it I can only seem to do another as soon as I stop sliding from the first one and if I try faster I just jump.

Is my problem that I am too slow at doing multiple wavedashes or am I doing them at the wrong times so I get punished or what? I'd really like to see how wavedashing is considered essential to puff but as it is it seems only of minor benefit and like being in the air gives you more ability to both avoid hits and give them.

 

[GenNyan]

Just keep using it in your play. You'll find out the specific situations that it's useful and how to use it. Its normal to get worse after learning a new advanced tech, so don't feel discouraged.

Also, puff physically can't be in the air forever, she has to land. And if you just stay in the air all the time, fox can just run in and hit you.

 

[MurphyPrime]

Puff's wavedash isn't like an ice climbers. It's not used just cause you have it. So using it might not be intuitive, but like GenNyan said, just keep practicing, and you'll find uses for it. It's useful against laser spams from what I have seen of Hbox.

 

[ZipZopZoop]

So then I should keep forcing myself to wavedash rather than rolling constantly when I play even if I get wrecked harder? Its kind of counterintuitive to keep doing something that gets you killed but I guess I see what you guys are saying. People I play used to always talk about how much I rolled and when I lost it was because they would punish all my rolls so if wavedashing is the solution to that I'm willing to keep on trucking.

 

[Crip]

WD oos: punish unsafe attacks on you shield with a grab, get away from shield pressure (if youre hella predictable yes you can get punished for it), get far enough away to dodge a second hit on you shield and punish with f-smash.
WD away: grab opponent after an under-shot aerial, f-smash to trade/beat out an approach, WD and dash away to bait an over commitment by them (then maybe bair them).
WD toward: Situational, often unsafe. Use as mixup to get a quick grab, use to close the space between you and opponent before you bair/fair/whatever.

 

[ZipZopZoop]

WD oos: punish unsafe attacks on you shield with a grab, get away from shield pressure (if youre hella predictable yes you can get punished for it), get far enough away to dodge a second hit on you shield and punish with f-smash.
WD away: grab opponent after an under-shot aerial, f-smash to trade/beat out an approach, WD and dash away to bait an over commitment by them (then maybe bair them).
WD toward: Situational, often unsafe. Use as mixup to get a quick grab, use to close the space between you and opponent before you bair/fair/whatever.

Thanks man, youre awesome. This is exactly the kind of advice on wavedash use i was looking for. Its kind of hard to start using it without general ideas of when it is good. The only one i really found so far was the wd away>fsmash to hit approaches.

 

[Squirrell]

So then I should keep forcing myself to wavedash rather than rolling constantly when I play even if I get wrecked harder? Its kind of counterintuitive to keep doing something that gets you killed but I guess I see what you guys are saying. People I play used to always talk about how much I rolled and when I lost it was because they would punish all my rolls so if wavedashing is the solution to that I'm willing to keep on trucking.

Rolling is usually a bad idea for any character, but for Jiggs it's an especially bad habit. Her roll animation lasts 34 frames and she's only invincible for 16 frames of it, so there are 18 frames where the opponent can get a completely free hit. I'd do your best to completely cut it out of your play, Jiggs has a better option than rolling 100% of the time.

As for your actual question, Crip answered it pretty well. I only ever use Puff's wavedash to get out of shield, or some really matchup-specific stuff like baiting. For example, if Marth is camping you with Fairs you can start spamming wavedashes and crouching to bait him into using his Dtilt, then predict that and punish. Puff's wavedash is useful but situational. Like everyone else has said, you find its uses with experience. Nothing beats experience in this game. Except Fox.

 

[Crip]

Idk rolls can be good for escaping pressure or as a mixup, theres still uses for it. However, I only ever realized the uses of roll after I cut it out of my game completely, then I slowly brought it back. So maybe youll wanna cut rolls out of your game until you realize wavedash applications and eventually youll understand when roll might come in handy.

 

[Synnett]

Wavedash may not be very useful at first glance. In fact, you will find more use in wavelanding for Hungryboxes. (wavedash into a platform or land from the air) But after a while, you will get used to it, and will end up in situations where the small pixel that this wavedash gave you saved you from dying. You can also use it to grab the ledge quickly, granting a kill if you edgeguard. Also, it will speed up your movement on the ground, in situations where you are forced to stay on the ground. I actually never thought I would use wavedash that much with Bowser because of how abysmal it is, but it definitively sped up my gameplay.

Another thing to note is that it will make you less predictable. Having more options in your gameplay will make it harder for your opponent to read your movements. Definitively keep rolls into your gameplay, but you may want to mix it along with other techniques.

Anyway, good luck in your training, and have fun!

Rolling is usually a bad idea for any character, but for Jiggs it's an especially bad habit.

I don't know... Link's rolls are very good, my friend keeps avoiding my grabs at last minute and it drives me nuts. xD Also, Zelda's rolls are pretty fast and go far, my other friend use them and it is actually very good. I don't know for puff tho, as I didn't really use them when I was playing her... but I guess it can be useful in some situations. Bowser has probably the worst of all the rolls in the game, and it still saved me plenty of times. (as I can upb out of shield)

 

[Squirrell]

Bowser and Samus have the worst rolls bar none, but I think Puff is a close 3rd. And of course, anything is useful as a mixup. Rollout is useful as a mixup. That's what mixup means.

Rolling to get out of shield pressure is only good if your opponent isn't good enough to chase it on reaction. But if they're good enough to be pressuring your shield that hard, odds are they're gonna hit you out of the roll anyway.

If you can't safely wavedash OoS because the pressure is too good, I'd suggest you either go for a prayer shieldgrab or drop your shield and DI away on the hit. I can't think of any moves that are that good for shield pressure that actually offer followups on Jiggs aside from maybe Falco pillaring your shield. That's one of the best things about Jiggs, you're generally not gonna get comboed. Just take that hit and go back to neutral. If you roll they can hit you with whatever they want, and they'll use something that leaves you open for a followup instead of something that's good on shield.