WaveDash in place, D-tilt

[Toe]

Is this technique more useful than just crouching during your run animation? I understand regular wavedashing into d-tilt is good but could this also be an option? When doing the running, couch d-tilt you will often carry your forward momentum along with your crouch so would this essentially eliminate that problem? Without losing out on much speed if any.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Is this technique more useful than just crouching during your run animation? I understand regular wavedashing into d-tilt is good but could this also be an option? When doing the running, couch d-tilt you will often carry your forward momentum along with your crouch so would this essentially eliminate that problem? Without losing out on much speed if any.

If it's a perfect WD in place, yes.

 

[Link24a]

Marth spends 4 frames on the ground in the jump and 10 frames in landing lag


I wouldn't recommend it

 

[FE_Hector]

I'm with @ L Link24a

I didn't know the exact numbers, but in my experience, WD in place -> dtilt just straight up FEELS laggy. Using a WD for positioning, however, is quite useful imo.

 

[Mobius_]

If anything you could just do a regular WD forwards earlier than you would do your downwards WD so you would end up in the same position

 

[Yung Clap]

I guess hours of doing research on Marth's DASH and RUN animations finally pay off...

Wave dash in place and a regular wave dash have the the same amount of "lag frames" (can't do anything in these frames) which is 10. So frame 11 is the earliest frame you can act out of a wave dash of any kind (only tested this out on Marth. Not sure about other characters). So frame 11 is the earliest you could input DTILT.

As for running, once you input crouch with Marth during his RUN animation you'll go into your RUN BREAK animation, or run cancel. Frame 16 is the earliest Marth can go into his RUN animations, so you need to input or keep holding dash up until frame 16 to go into Marth's RUN. During this RUN BREAK animation frame 5 is the earliest you can input DTILT (you'll do a D.SMASH if you input it on frame 3-4). But for some weird reason, if you input crouch and dash on first frame of your RUN BREAK animation then the earliest you can input DTILT is frame 4.

DISCLAIMER: I tested all this on Dolphin with keyboard controls, so I'm not 100% sure if RUN CANEL > DTILT is 100% accurate. If anyone who has done any extensive research on this kind of frame data please feel free to correct me and call me stupid

RUN CANCEL > DTILT:
- DASH until frame 15
- Keep holding dash until frame 16, then continue holding dash and input crouch (I think you can input a downward diagonal direction on the controller. Like I said before I did this all on keyboard)
- Now you're in the first frame of your RUN animation
- Next frame you will be in the first frame of your RUN BREAK animation
- Let 2 frames pass
- Next frame, frame 4 of RUN BREAK animation, is the earliest you can input DTILT

TOTAL FRAMES UNTIL DTILT CAN BE INPUTTED: FRAME 19
EARLIEST FRAME DTILT CAN BE INPUTTED: FRAME 20

WAVE DASH > DTILT:
- Input jump
- On frame 5 input diagonal air dodge
- Go threw 10 frames of Marth's wave dash
- Next frame, frame 11, earliest frame to input DTILT

Starting from the first frame of Marth's jump animation:
TOTAL FRAMES UNTIL DTILT CAN BE INPUTTED: FRAME 14
EARLIEST FRAME DTILT CAN BE INPUTTED: FRAME 15

*Edit: fixed grammatical errors

 

[AirFair]

Revisiting this because I got time to test it on 20xx on console.

So, I assume you mean to ask whether wd in place dtilt is more frame friendly than doing a regular run cancel dtilt?
if you are dashing and do both of those things on the earliest frames possible starting from the same frame of dash, then it's a little different

First, the earliest dtilt can come out is if you input it on or after frame 3 of squat, in which it comes out 1 frame later, which would be earliest 4 frames after inputting a crouch.

Run-Cancel on earliest frame:
Dash for 15 frames
Run starts frame 16
1 frame of RUNBRAKE
2 frames of SQUAT
input on frame 3 of SQUAT
Dtilt starts.

Total Frames: 20 frames
Dtilt comes out on frame: 21

I don't quite understand @ Yung Clap saying that you input dtilt out of RUNBRAKE, which is why I went through all the states involved in the process. Don't mean to undermine what you did tho lol

Now assuming you begin your jump on frame 16 of dash (which is when run would normally start if you kept dashing)
Dash for 15 frames
Input a jump on frame 16 which starts KNEEBEND
4 frames of KNEEBEND or jumpsquat
JUMP starts on frame 5, and is the earliest you can input an airdodge
After Airdodge:
LANDINGFALLSPECIAL for 10 frames exactly
Assuming you are holding down to crouch through the previous state, you will enter squat the frame after
SQUAT for 2 frames
input the move on frame 3 like before
Dtilt starts.

Total Frames: 33
Dtilt comes out on frame: 34

So yeah, WD in place dtilt is actually going to hurt you by AT LEAST 13 frames.

If you wanted to break even, you could input the jump to start the wd on dash's frame 5, but by then, you haven't even covered much ground at all, which is very counterintuitive, and difficult to do lol.

So there. Disclaimer tho, I'm not a frame expert, but I just wanted to see if what I got matched up with Clap. I don't test much often, so this was fun lol.

 

[Yung Clap]

@ AirFair My mistake, in my step by step analysis of dash to DTILT (RUN BREAK > DTITL), you DTILT out of your SQUAT animation not your RUN BREAK animation. Just tested it out, I think I wasn't paying too much attention.

The reason why we got a difference of one frame in time DTILT can be inputted and comes out is because I inputted DOWN and DASH on frame 16 (first frame of RUN) at the same time. If this is the case, than for some weird reason you can actually input DTILT on frame 2 of SQUAT and have it come out on the next frame. Here's the break down:

F15: DASH, INPUT DOWN AND DASH (left or right, depending on what direction you're dashing)
F16: RUN
F17: RUN BREAK
F18: SQUAT
F19: SQUAT, CAN INPUT DTILT HERE SO IT COMES OUT NEXT FRAME
F20: DTILT COMES OUT

So DTILT can be inputed on frame 2 of SQUAT and comes out on the next frame under these circumstances.

I think you did was ONLY input dash on frame 15 to go into your RUN animation and then input DOWN to go to RUN BREAK on the next frame. If that's the case than yes, DTILT can be inputted on frame 3 of SQUAT and come out on the next frame. Here's the break down:

F15: DASH, KEEP HOLDING DASH AND ONLY DASH
F16: RUN, INPUT DOWN
F17: RUN BREAK
F18: SQUAT
F19: SQUAT
F20: SQUAT, CAN INPUT DTILT HERE SO IT COMES OUT NEXT FRAME
F21: DTILT COME OUT

It just weird how you can input DTILT one frame earlier in your SQUAT animation if you input DOWN and DASH on the first frame of RUN, which I think is not humanly possible lol. But IDK I might have to test it on console.