Wannabe Fox main looking for guidance and training routines to improve movement!

[Jnag]

What can i say.. my fox movement is sub-par and my overall "game" suffers tremendously as a result.


Things to know / Common mistakes:

This is my first fighting game.
I can wave-dash wave-land fast fall and short hop.
I lack knowledge of my movement options.
I get grabbed while i'm trying to DD
I tend to overextend when DD against an opponent



Any guidance/tips on improving my movement would help allot.

Any routines/videos/threads you could link me would also go along way!

I also have Net-play if anyone wants to train me or play

 

[jugfingers]

train on a steady diet of mangoes and cacao

here's a fox combo video I ju made from some tournies in kelowna, I think the waveland approaches I have against shiek on dreamland might be instructive

and, ju try and become as fast as possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABJZYAyyyQ

 

[Clint Jaguar]

As someone who has only recently started playing Fox, here are some of the things I practice:

1. Dash dancing and fox trotting: Simple stuff but you need to work on it. Spacing is the name of the game and a messed up fox trot could lead to you losing the match. Try fox trotting around an empty stage to get the timing down and then try doing this with a CPU. Dash dance just out of range and when you see an opening, punish with either an aerial or a jump-cancelled grab.

2. Ledge game: Your wavedashes to and from the ledge need to be perfect. Keep practicing this until you can do it without thinking. When you get this down, try mixing it up with by shooting lasers or performing aerials when you jump from the ledge. Keep doing it until you can comfortably double laser from the ledge and then ledge dash back down again. You should also practice wavedashing off the stage into a shine and shining from the ledge. These are good edge-guarding tactics.

3. Short-hop down air to shine: You can practice this anywhere but a good way to perfect this is by going to Fourside in training mode with Peach as your opponent. Position Peach against the wall of the main tower and then begin performing short hop down airs to shine. If you're doing it right, the "consecutive hits" number should keep going up. This tactic is also a good way of practicing waveshining but more on that later.

4. Short hop single/double laser: You're not Falco but this is still something you should practice, especially for matches against floaty characters or as a method of baiting your opponent to approach. Single lasers are done by just quickly tapping the B button after a short hop. Double lasers are a little more difficult but I find it easiest by swiping my thumb from one button to the next (for me it's Y to B). When you can do this while moving around the stage, you've got it down.

5. Waveshining & Shines out of attacks: If you're not shining, you might as well be playing Mario. Start by practicing short hops out of shine. Once you got this down, try doing some short hop aerials into shine. Got it? Okay now waveshining. If you've already mastered short hop lasers then this will be a lot easier. First try shining and wavedashing in place. Keep doing this until you get comfortable with the input and then try wavedashing in a direction after a shine. Keep practicing until you can do this easily. Once you have all this down, try mixing it up. E.g. Dash into short hop nair/dair, shine into wavedash and end with a up smash.

6. Shield movement: Get comfortable wavedashing out of shield. This is a lot easier if you use both triggers but it's not necessary. Remember that rolls and spot dodges should be used sparingly. Performing aerials and shines out of shield is also something you need to get good at. Finally there's shield dropping. Shield on a platform, gently move your control stick to the far left or right and then move the stick down. If you fell through while still shielding, you did it correctly. If you get good at this, you'll be able to perform aerials as you drop.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jnag]

Thanks for your time and response it was helpful!
Do you have a specific routine you do to practice those things?

 

[Clint Jaguar]

I go into VS mode, switch off the timer and plug in a second controller so I can move around the stage without having to fight a cpu. You can do it in Training Mode if you don't have a second controller but then you can't practice C-stick stuff. As for stages, you should practice a bit on every legal stage but certain stages are better for practicing certain techniques. Yoshi's Story for example is good for practicing walljumps but not so good for practicing double lasers from the ledge (at least not until you get good at it). Asides from that, I don't really have a set routine. I just go through all the stuff I listed in my last post until I either get bored or want to practice a different character.

 

[Kiusthugs]

I go into VS mode, switch off the timer and plug in a second controller so I can move around the stage without having to fight a cpu. You can do it in Training Mode if you don't have a second controller but then you can't practice C-stick stuff. As for stages, you should practice a bit on every legal stage but certain stages are better for practicing certain techniques. Yoshi's Story for example is good for practicing walljumps but not so good for practicing double lasers from the ledge (at least not until you get good at it). Asides from that, I don't really have a set routine. I just go through all the stuff I listed in my last post until I either get bored or want to practice a different character.

20xx hack pack man

 

[Sleepy Driz]

Make sure you can shffl consistently without hitting anything, and also practice against a player 2 handicapped Bowser with damage ratio set to .5 to practice L-cancels on target. Something you can also do is steal the hand warmers before a set and tech skill drills that pros do in between stocks while waiting for their opponent to respawn. Mango in particular always has very fluid movement while throwing out short hop nairs and drill shines after a kill and Mew2King has pretty impressive ledge and laser control.

 

[Clint Jaguar]

20xx hack pack man

I don't have the 20xx pack yet and I can't get it on my laptop since it lags when I try to run Melee. I agree though that Jnag should definitely check it out if he can.

 

[Meez]

Another thing to consider is that the timing for L-canceling drill can be tough at first, but it's the easiest move to shine after, IMO.

Just practice doing it on nothing, on shields, and on characters.

 

[Kiusthugs]

I don't have the 20xx pack yet and I can't get it on my laptop since it lags when I try to run Melee. I agree though that Jnag should definitely check it out if he can.

There are ways to get it in the wii and wii u I believe

 

[Jnag]

Much appreciate boys. I will end up taking all of your advice.. Happy hunting those space animals

 

[TheCrisp]

One thing I like to do is shadowbox. PP does it a lot I think. Just move around a lvl 1 cpu like it's a person. Practice staying out of it's ranges during a dash dance (just imagine it's attacking you) and mix up approaches like its a human. For example, do runnning shine, dash dance nair, fullhop drill shine, etc... Imagine the cpu is a real person that's the key aspect.

 

[Meez]

One thing I like to do is shadowbox. PP does it a lot I think. Just move around a lvl 1 cpu like it's a person. Practice staying out of it's ranges during a dash dance (just imagine it's attacking you) and mix up approaches like its a human. For example, do runnning shine, dash dance nair, fullhop drill shine, etc... Imagine the cpu is a real person that's the key aspect.

This is actually something worth doing with all the characters, in my experience. It's really nice for keeping your dash dance tight, and keeping your options open so you're not bottlenecked into 1 or 2 approach options.

 

[Jnag]

One thing I like to do is shadowbox. PP does it a lot I think. Just move around a lvl 1 cpu like it's a person. Practice staying out of it's ranges during a dash dance (just imagine it's attacking you) and mix up approaches like its a human. For example, do runnning shine, dash dance nair, fullhop drill shine, etc... Imagine the cpu is a real person that's the key aspect.

This is exactly the kind of advice i'm looking for. You sir/mam have made my day. Hope it means something.. Also a big thanks to Meez for verification :D

 

[Archelon]

In my opinion the most important thing you can learn after all the basic tech like L-cancel, SHDL is Waveshining. It makes your punish game significantly better and is also very useful when pressureing shields.
First of all MAKE SURE you are practising this to always be hitting a character or shield because if you learn to wavedash too quickly (ignoring hitlag or whatever) it is super hard to unlearn (at least in my experience).
The way I worked on it was by first just shining and wavedashing out (on a character or shield of course). Practise on characters with high-ish traction like peach and falcon with grabs, up-smash and d-smash with out a dash. On characters like Marth, you need to do a dash after, then a JC grab or up-smash. I recommend for grab and u-smash on high traction characters doing the JC anyways because it only costs you a couple of frames and you have lots of time on high traction characters anyways (no harm getting in the good habit).
Once you have that down, the next step is working on waveshine-waveshine-waveshine etc. Start on Peach or Zelda, who have the highest traction do a waveshine on them, then another waveshine right after. You want to do the second shine fairly quickly during the wavedash. I say to wavedash out of the second shine because then when you work on several waveshines in a row it's easier because you're not stuck in shine.
Once you have the second down, work on getting a third, fourth etc. Once you can do this easily, work on ending the chain with u-smash, grab and D-smash.
Then move on to Falcon, who has a bit less traction, doing the same things. Go back to Peach/ Zelda every so often too.
Eventually, you should move on to Sheik, the hardest top tier character to waveshine who you can actually waveshine. (With Marth he goes to far and you the need just JC grab/u-smash him with a dash, and for fox/ falco/ puff, you need to thunders' combo, which I'll get to in a next).
On Fox, Falco and Jigglypuff, you need to perform a "thunders' combo", since they are knocked down by your shine. It's basically jab resetting them out of you waveshine. It's pretty tricky. FWI, the timing is that you need to hit them after they first hit the ground but before they hit it the second time after they bounce. If you notice that they are consistently teching your shines, you basically just need to tech chase them because you can't jab reset them.
In terms of choosing which option to pick after you string of waveshines, u-throw u-air does more damge than a u-smash if you can land it on the character at that percent, espeacially if you get multiple u-airs. At kill percents you should always just u-smash regardless because it's more reliable. D-smash is if you waveshine someone to the edge of the stage and think you can use d-smash to gimp them (and u-smash won't kill). This is especially useful on Captain Falcon.
Hope I could help!

 

[Jnag]

In my opinion the most important thing you can learn after all the basic tech like L-cancel, SHDL is Waveshining. It makes your punish game significantly better and is also very useful when pressureing shields.
First of all MAKE SURE you are practising this to always be hitting a character or shield because if you learn to wavedash too quickly (ignoring hitlag or whatever) it is super hard to unlearn (at least in my experience).
The way I worked on it was by first just shining and wavedashing out (on a character or shield of course). Practise on characters with high-ish traction like peach and falcon with grabs, up-smash and d-smash with out a dash. On characters like Marth, you need to do a dash after, then a JC grab or up-smash. I recommend for grab and u-smash on high traction characters doing the JC anyways because it only costs you a couple of frames and you have lots of time on high traction characters anyways (no harm getting in the good habit).
Once you have that down, the next step is working on waveshine-waveshine-waveshine etc. Start on Peach or Zelda, who have the highest traction do a waveshine on them, then another waveshine right after. You want to do the second shine fairly quickly during the wavedash. I say to wavedash out of the second shine because then when you work on several waveshines in a row it's easier because you're not stuck in shine.
Once you have the second down, work on getting a third, fourth etc. Once you can do this easily, work on ending the chain with u-smash, grab and D-smash.
Then move on to Falcon, who has a bit less traction, doing the same things. Go back to Peach/ Zelda every so often too.
Eventually, you should move on to Sheik, the hardest top tier character to waveshine who you can actually waveshine. (With Marth he goes to far and you the need just JC grab/u-smash him with a dash, and for fox/ falco/ puff, you need to thunders' combo, which I'll get to in a next).
On Fox, Falco and Jigglypuff, you need to perform a "thunders' combo", since they are knocked down by your shine. It's basically jab resetting them out of you waveshine. It's pretty tricky. FWI, the timing is that you need to hit them after they first hit the ground but before they hit it the second time after they bounce. If you notice that they are consistently teching your shines, you basically just need to tech chase them because you can't jab reset them.
In terms of choosing which option to pick after you string of waveshines, u-throw u-air does more damge than a u-smash if you can land it on the character at that percent, espeacially if you get multiple u-airs. At kill percents you should always just u-smash regardless because it's more reliable. D-smash is if you waveshine someone to the edge of the stage and think you can use d-smash to gimp them (and u-smash won't kill). This is especially useful on Captain Falcon.
Hope I could help!

YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE GOD. MY THANKS YO YOU SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Archelon]

YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE GOD. MY THANKS YO YOU SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No problem, man.

 

[Archelon]

. For practising multishines, first work on "jumpshines" jump then B with the multishine timing. This is to make it easier to learn future steps. I strongly recommend NOT doing shine-jump-shine at first, but rather the "jumpshines" I've described (I originally learned this from Westballz saying it).
. Once you can do that consistently, you should start doing Shine-Jump-Shine-Jump. It is important to do the jump after because you'll aways want to jump out of multishines, whether to do a wavehine or more multishines or a JC grab after, and I found that for me it was hard to learn to not just sit in shine after the second shine. After you get this, start doing wavedashes, JC grabs etc. out of the doubleshines, not just the jump.
. After this, move on to doing more and more multishines!

. For side-B shortens, you can't really practise them badly, my only advice is:
-Practise them on the ground, because it is the same timing but this stops you from getting your timing for the second B press from a jump you might potentially do to get in the air.
-If you want to sort of give yourself a situation where there's a bit of "pressure", you can stand facing the edge so that if you miss a shorten you'll SD (like I mean in practise).
-Try also putting yourself in a situation where you would use a shorten, like a bit above the edge but pretty close to the stage and do it from there. If you have 20XX, you can use the save/ load state to do it repeatedly, without have to jump off stage (which could potentially lead to the timing coming off the jump like I said earlier).

P.S. I seriously recommend considering using claw. I do, and it only takes a few hours to get used to it, and if you haven't practised too much tech yet with fox you really aren't losing anything. It makes it way easier to Multishine/ Waveshine and IMO short hop, but that isn't really a problem for most people. I'm pretty sure it is also healtier for your hands and wrists, and definately for you thumb.
For my right hand I use thumb for A, B and C-Stick, Index for Y, Middle for R, and Ring for Z. Some people use middle for R and Z, but I find it really hard to do, so I guess you should do whichever you like better. One final note is to keep your pinky straight. It will naturally want to curl up, but I found this made it really hurt after for a while, so it's important to remember to keep it straight. It becomes automatic after a while. I think it might come from that at first when you use claw it feels like you don't have a firm enough grip on your controller.

Hope this helps as well!

PPS This guide by Omni is a good way to go about learning all the tech before the stuff I've explained:
http://smashboards.com/threads/omnis-guide-to-mastering-fox-v-4-5-update-vs-ice-climbers.60570/

 

[Archelon]

Make sure you can shffl consistently without hitting anything, and also practice against a player 2 handicapped Bowser with damage ratio set to .5 to practice L-cancels on target. Something you can also do is steal the hand warmers before a set and tech skill drills that pros do in between stocks while waiting for their opponent to respawn. Mango in particular always has very fluid movement while throwing out short hop nairs and drill shines after a kill and Mew2King has pretty impressive ledge and laser control.

Just one thing to remember about this is that hitting a character and their shields actually have different timings too (Hitting a shield has even more hitlag, I'm pretty sure). If you have 20XX it's easy to practise on shields by toggling the CPUs, if not you can use starmans (although if you don't have 20XX you can't use C-Stick in training (but you can still practise nairs!), and if a level 1 CPU has invincibilty it could interrupt you when you are trying to hit it.

 

[TheCrisp]

This is exactly the kind of advice i'm looking for. You sir/mam have made my day. Hope it means something.. Also a big thanks to Meez for verification :D

Yeah anytime haha.

 

[Archelon]

One thing I like to do is shadowbox. PP does it a lot I think. Just move around a lvl 1 cpu like it's a person. Practice staying out of it's ranges during a dash dance (just imagine it's attacking you) and mix up approaches like its a human. For example, do runnning shine, dash dance nair, fullhop drill shine, etc... Imagine the cpu is a real person that's the key aspect.

Yeah, I find this super useful too.