Vs. Samus

[FE_Hector]

So, I've been a lot more active in my local scene recently, and it seems like I just stomp on every single Samus that I fight, including two separate Samus mains. Am I just great against Samus, is the MU in Marth's favor, are the Samus' just total noobs (even compared to my 4-month old Marth), or is it a combination thereof? I never used my Falco on them because my Marth performed so beautifully.

 

[A_Reverie]

The MU is pretty strongly in Marth's favor, I feel. I have a Samus main friend (one of the few I ever get to play with) and I usually 3 or 4 stock him. It could also be their inexperience. There are some things Samus can do to Marth but for the most part Marth wins.

 

[FE_Hector]

Alright, thanks. It's hard to tell at this low of a level whether it's a matter of my experience in the MU (bro is an ex-Samus main), or if it was in Marth's favor.

 

[A_Reverie]

Don't let your guard down You don't want someone like Plup coming by and ruining your entire day!

 

[FE_Hector]

My Marth has 4 months of practice. If Plup decides to come to an NC local for w.e. reason and I face him, I know that I'll get bopped. It may feel disgusting, but it won't be disheartening.

 

[A_Reverie]

Samus is a super weird MU even against a bad player. Almost as weird as the Marth ditto.

 

[FE_Hector]

Oh... I make her commit to something while dodging her missiles/random charge shots. Soon as I have an opening, I get in a grab, uthrow, and start stringing uairs. SHFFL fairs and (despite how much I say they suck) dairs seem to be working pretty well. I got the craziest setup off of a SHFFL dair to pop her up that ended up granting me a Ken Combo.

 

[A_Reverie]

U-throw is good because Samus takes forever to get back down, and if you can push them into jumping you're golden. You can also do some work with F-throw. Often times they'll jump out of that too, or wiggle out waveland. At high percents you can kill with center hit F-air to F-smash. I just don't like having to chase her in the air for so long. It makes me sleepy.

 

[FE_Hector]

Stringing on a ton of uairs is pretty funny imo, especially when they just start sighing like "when will it end?" Also, it turns out she's pretty easy to Ken Combo. If she's recovering around 60%(?), just hit with the proper box on fair, jump, and dair. It worked properly for me several times over, so I'd say that it's definitely something to keep in mind.

 

[A_Reverie]

My friend always says "RELEASE ME." so you're right about that. I can't deny enjoying hopping around Battlefield and filling the room with that silly tipper aerial slash sound.

 

[FE_Hector]

That's hilarious. The last 2 times I fought against Sheiks, it gave me PS to beat them on, and with the neutral transformation staying around for how long it does, it was extremely easy to keep her in the air until she was at a disgusting % or I got the KO.

 

[outofphase]

I actually have the opposite problem, where I somehow always lose to a good Samus, despite controlling 95% of the match. I do think the matchup is well in Marth's favor, but I just have some issues with punishing her and escaping her setups.

 

[PoppaSquat]

samus is definitely a weird matchup, I've played a few good samus(es?) that gave me a hard time with her Crouch Cancel D-Smash/D-tilt. However if you take away her crouch cancel with some well spaced poke and keep close so she cant fire missiles then she can be even easier to keep in the air than sheik.

 

[FE_Hector]

Wait NC actually has decent Samus mains? I guess I just haven't run into any of them yet.

 

[TheKobanator]

Unless they are CC>DTilt/DSmash, UpB OoS, Missle Canceling, things like that, I'd say they are beginner level. That much up really teaches you how to space and use your movement as an advantage.

 

[Hawkins]

I could actually use some advice on that matchup. i just spent the better part of two hours getting beat up by a Samus. I'm really new to the game so anything you can say would be helpful. I don't know how to deal with missile camping, I can't edgeguard her to save my life, I can't combo her past two hits if I'm lucky, and all that good stuff I'm sure a new guy has to learn. More generally I've been told I need to learn how to zone better. I (kind of) understand the concept of zoning but how exactly do I do it and whats the best way to practice it?

 

[FE_Hector]

If you're a new player that's getting bodied by a Samus, don't take it too personally. My way of handling the MU is uthrow uair to death. Watch for strategic use of Morph Ball bombs to reverse direction and affect her height a little bit, but your uairs can still juggle her really well. For edgeguarding, ledgehop dair should work great if she has to use her upB to get to the ledge. Otherwise, occupy the ledge and react to where she's headed. If she wants to take the edge, ledgedash up and fsmash her back off. She's pretty weak once she gets offstage. Also, Ken Combos are possible on her as early as 60%, which makes it a bit easier. Due to its weird KB and her floatiness, popup dairs are also pretty good in this MU. If they like missiles that much, you can easily either jump over them or swat them down with a SHFFL fair, which shouldn't be a problem. Zoning is kind of weird, but basically attempt to threaten them without playing aggro. Make them uncomfortable with threatening fairs and dtilts in order to make them make unsafe choices. For practice, honestly just find times where you can take advantage of it during friendlies. If there's something you're not too comfortable with and you don't HAVE to do it to win, don't try it out in tourney.

 

[Hawkins]

That's good advice thank you. My SHFFLing and ledge game definitely need some serious work, which is something I need to just buckle down and put in the hours of lab work to do. The up-throw to Uair thing hasn't really worked for me though. Every time I try I eat a nair. Is that something that only works after a certain percent? Do I just need to be more on point with SHFFL Uairs?

 

[FE_Hector]

That's good advice thank you. My SHFFLing and ledge game definitely need some serious work, which is something I need to just buckle down and put in the hours of lab work to do. The up-throw to Uair thing hasn't really worked for me though. Every time I try I eat a nair. Is that something that only works after a certain percent? Do I just need to be more on point with SHFFL Uairs?

If she doesn't go high up, SHFFL uairs can land, but it's a bit tougher. If you're eating nairs, you're probably WAY too close to her. Remember, you've got a sword whose tip is the absolute strongest, so make sure you actually hit with it.

 

[Hawkins]

Thanks for the advice man. My training partner is a Samus and there are a couple other strong Samus mains in my area (including one guy who seems to take fiendish delight from missile spamming people like me who cant deal with it) so i'll definitely start working on my SHFFL fairs hard. we'll see how it goes.

 

[FE_Hector]

Sounds good. Most of the Samus' in my area aren't too good, which is part of the reason it's so easy for me. But yeah, fundamentals of the MU work either way.

 

[Ouroboro]

So, I'm a Samus main. This is a particular matchup I've been studying a lot recently. I think it would be pretty helpful to have a dialog about the match-up.

As a Samus in this match-up I'm looking for a handful of things in order to take control of the match. First of all, Randy and misplaced fsmashes, wave dash out of sheild and downsmash puts marth off stage and gives me, or the samus, some widdle room to work some edge guarding or a straight out kill. If I've managed to survive for a long time I know Marths are antsy so there will be a lot of approaching sheilds.

Second thing I'm looking for is misplaced fairs, too deep on samus that can be cc down smash or dtilt. Dtilt is a move that at low percent can lead to platform tech chase dairy, which can string into nice bairs or nairs. Marth can counter this with well placed fairs and immidiately shielding. A downsmash on sheild is punishable by Marth pretty easy, so watch out for that. Keep in mind that the meta will evolve and aware samus' will start sheild grabbing.

The edge guard for samus is fairly easy. Try to avoid using the jump, but well placed missiles and charge shots can force that jump, allowing for possible Bair edge guards. Going low will result in invincible nairs which basically wrecks Marth.

As a samus I have a lot of trouble getting from ledge to stage against a smart marth who will hold their ground and move intellegently against most if not all of samus's options. Fairs are most common, simply wave dash back f smash most the time to beat her out until she smarten up. Although samus can't do much from ledge against marth regardless, roll is react able, ad is tournament winner. If your spaced too far back you can pull a Hugs and land gently on the edge and bait a swing. Dtilts also wreck samus on edge and while recovering. Don't rely entirely on the dtilt, after you hit one or two, grabbing ledge or dair will end things quickly. I would NOT advise going out off stage against a samus. As soon as you leave stage she can inturpt with an up b. Grapple and wall jump mix-ups also can get in your way.

I'd like to hear from a Marths point of view how the samus edgeguard works. I've recently picked up no impact landing, does this ever throw off any of your options?

In neutral, marth dominates if he can play around the cc. F tilt and jab on grab is mostly punishable by marth who can simply grab ad far as I can tell. The juggling is also silly, but a lot of samus mains are used to when to bomb and when to fast fall nair to throw off the marth. Basically try to be as uncommitted as possible when juggling and read the samus response.

A smart samus will di out most Marths throws and hits, Ken combos are rarer on those players, doesn't seem relyable. To me.

 

[FE_Hector]

So, I'm a Samus main. This is a particular matchup I've been studying a lot recently. I think it would be pretty helpful to have a dialog about the match-up.

As a Samus in this match-up I'm looking for a handful of things in order to take control of the match. First of all, Randy and misplaced fsmashes, wave dash out of sheild and downsmash puts marth off stage and gives me, or the samus, some widdle room to work some edge guarding or a straight out kill. If I've managed to survive for a long time I know Marths are antsy so there will be a lot of approaching sheilds.

Second thing I'm looking for is misplaced fairs, too deep on samus that can be cc down smash or dtilt. Dtilt is a move that at low percent can lead to platform tech chase dairy, which can string into nice bairs or nairs. Marth can counter this with well placed fairs and immidiately shielding. A downsmash on sheild is punishable by Marth pretty easy, so watch out for that. Keep in mind that the meta will evolve and aware samus' will start sheild grabbing.

The edge guard for samus is fairly easy. Try to avoid using the jump, but well placed missiles and charge shots can force that jump, allowing for possible Bair edge guards. Going low will result in invincible nairs which basically wrecks Marth.

As a samus I have a lot of trouble getting from ledge to stage against a smart marth who will hold their ground and move intellegently against most if not all of samus's options. Fairs are most common, simply wave dash back f smash most the time to beat her out until she smarten up. Although samus can't do much from ledge against marth regardless, roll is react able, ad is tournament winner. If your spaced too far back you can pull a Hugs and land gently on the edge and bait a swing. Dtilts also wreck samus on edge and while recovering. Don't rely entirely on the dtilt, after you hit one or two, grabbing ledge or dair will end things quickly. I would NOT advise going out off stage against a samus. As soon as you leave stage she can inturpt with an up b. Grapple and wall jump mix-ups also can get in your way.

I'd like to hear from a Marths point of view how the samus edgeguard works. I've recently picked up no impact landing, does this ever throw off any of your options?

In neutral, marth dominates if he can play around the cc. F tilt and jab on grab is mostly punishable by marth who can simply grab ad far as I can tell. The juggling is also silly, but a lot of samus mains are used to when to bomb and when to fast fall nair to throw off the marth. Basically try to be as uncommitted as possible when juggling and read the samus response.

A smart samus will di out most Marths throws and hits, Ken combos are rarer on those players, doesn't seem relyable. To me.

I think you actually summarized the MU quite well. I don't have any experience against Samus' of any caliber, so I have no idea what it's like to get edgeguarded by them. I 3 and 4-stock all of them as Marth. One thing I do have to say, though, is that you actually pointed out the biggest issue that Marth's have with really any MU: fairs. I will never say that it's a bad aerial, but some Marth's will dash/run in and fair, which is a complete and total overcommitment. What they should be doing is maybe walk up and fair or approach before doing a fadeaway fair Samus' LOVE their upB OoS for free damage, but the range of Marth's sword should entirely prevent that. Otherwise, though, you actually just gave a LOT of insight on the MU. Thanks!
EDIT: As far as NILs go, a well-timed dtilt should still catch it, but if Marth's isn't aware of the possibility, it could trip them up once or twice. 4 frames doesn't make THAT big of a difference.