Vs. Roy OR Vs. Peach

[B.Wong]

Which matchup is more difficult for snake? I main Peach and pocket Roy. I've noticed that using Roy vs Snake is much easier than Peach vs. Snake.

Your thoughts?

 

[BND]

That really depends on their playstyle. I honestly prefer fighting Roys, since I'm more of an aggro Snake prefer shorter matches ("Why sit on one side of the stage and chuck grenades when you could be doing something productive like homework?"), but I'd imagine that a Snake who's willing to camp and chuck grenades can do some serious damage to Peach. I literally only developed offensive grenade tech (at the expense of most other things) to deal with my roommate's Jigglypuff. Once the Snake has it down and is willing to abuse grenades (I still don't have the patience and generally go in if I'm a stock ahead, evening the matchup), though, I think the Peach-Snake matchup slants a good amount towards Snake.

(I think edgeguarding's largely irrelevant here; on a large enough stage like FD (not smashville), Snake's survivability depends only on the player, simply because Snakes have infinite vertical recovery provided that they can tech the stage, can choose when to tech the stage, and can actually put out an invincible hitbox upon stagetech (while Roy and Peach can't actually go down for an edgeguard). That's probably more information than necessary, but you get the point.)

Basically, there are 3 things to consider: your friend's grenade tech, your friend's combo skill, and your own combo avoidance skill. Roy's a lot easier to combo than Peach, but is less susceptible to being killed by a grenade and also has great disjoints compared to Peach (To be fair, didn't angle it since Dolphin has issues, but Roy's ftilt has even more range than Marth's fsmash! http://puu.sh/fPwv1/fd1d3ce981.jpg), making the overall matchup easier. Peach is generally bad against campy players at any skill level, but can't really be comboed at all given her floatiness, air time, and nair.

As someone else said (Was it Sethlon? I forget), Roy's mainly about fundamentals, so if you're looking to get better overall and help your friend get better in a non-psychological way, Roy might be a better pick. If your friend can't play campy, you could also play Peach if you're looking to shore up his weaknesses. On the other hand, if your friend can't camp at all, playing a bit of Peach might be good If you're looking to win, pick a character based on how you perceive those three factors.

 

[B.Wong]

My friend Snake barely uses grenade tech. However, he makes good use of the mines, using throws to activate them. He also uses the tranquilizer frequently and will try and disrespect with the fair spike. So yes, he does play campy and is willing to wait it out.

That means hyper aggressive Roy right with some f tilt mixups? Right?

 

[BND]

Truth be told, if that's all your friend's Snake is doing, he has a bit to learn (unless he's playing Snake as a novelty character, which is understandable, but still, there are better ways to play Snake). Realistically, especially as Peach, tranqs should never activate (since you should be in the air most of the time), unless you're grounded, and grabs shouldn't be the easiest thing to get.

It might help if you supply a few details about your own playstyle: do you use floats frequently as Peach, do you dash dance as Roy, can you combo as Roy, etc.

 

[B.Wong]

No he definitely uses him as a main, he does not L cancel, and does not wave dash at all. And to answer your second question, I float fairly frequently with Peach (but the down smash mines are trouble), and am able to go offstage to get kills with her. I can do consistent SHFFL's with Roy, wave dash consistently and can combo pretty well. I also do a mix of dash dancing and wave dashing for my approaches. I've beaten this guy more times than not, but I want to be able to SHREK him at tournament on Sunday.

 

[cisyphus]

No he definitely uses him as a main, he does not L cancel, and does not wave dash at all. And to answer your second question, I float fairly frequently with Peach (but the down smash mines are trouble), and am able to go offstage to get kills with her. I can do consistent SHFFL's with Roy, wave dash consistently and can combo pretty well. I also do a mix of dash dancing and wave dashing for my approaches. I've beaten this guy more times than not, but I want to be able to SHREK him at tournament on Sunday.

If you're getting hit by mines in your float, you're floating too low. Grab a second controller, and pick Snake and Peach. Turn hitboxes on (L+R+D-Pad down, then R+D-pad right) and place a mine. The purple circle that appears is what you touch that makes the mine explode. Float above that and you're fine. Other than that, you can use turnips to destroy the mines. Turnips can be really great in this matchup, but be wary of where the Snake is in relation to you (this shouldn't be too bad based on how garbo this Snake is). In general, I do think Peach has a losing matchup vs. Snake: she's rather immobile which Snake punishes hard with grenades and mines, and Snake has a lot of good range to stuff her approaches and a lot of good tools to escape / punish shield pressure (which is a big asset of peach). She is also extremely floaty, so any number of Snake's strong KO moves gets her really early—denting her normally-fantastic survivability. Similarly, Snake can live forever and minimizes that advantage from Peach as well. Snake can also top platform camp more effectively than any other character, so that's a viable strategy vs. Peach, who has MASSIVE trouble getting up there (slow DJs do that). It's an ugly matchup for Peach, I'd call Snake a Peach counter tbh.

Roy isn't much better, though. Snake normally has trouble against swords, but Roy's range is so short and his hilt sweetspot forces him to be closer to Snake, which combined with his fast falling speed gets him comboed to death quite a lot. Roy also lacks a really safe OOS option, so Snake kinda has free reign if he can get you in shield via CHFFL nairs and dairs. That being said, Roy has a good amount of mobility to discourage Snake's campiness, and once Roy gets a combo string going against Snake, it can very well mean a KO. Your goal should probably be juggling strings with up tilt and up air until you're able to sweetspot back air or neutral B to KO. It's not as bad as Peach, but this is still in Snake's favor.

That being said, this Snake has no idea about any of that so it literally doesn't really matter. You just need to outplay him. Snake's dair isn't that scary, so juggling him for days can work well, and picking stages with small side blastzones is really good. Punish his Cypher recoveries HARD (Roy can spike through it I think, Peach can down tilt non-sweetspot recoveries because hitlag on the Cypher extends hitboxes—downtilt is an amazing Peach combo starter).

tl;dr gitgud