vs Greninja

[Neo Zero]

For Match Up Discussion against Greninja.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Guys, any advice? I don't find the run of the mill Greninja to be too much difficulty, but if I'm up against a particularly good one, it can be difficult to keep on top of things. It can be hard to keep up with their speed; I've tried Down Smashing them as they run/roll towards me, but they always reach me before the full hitbox animation plays. How do the rest of you deal with them?

Share your strategies

 

[Eji1700]

Guys, any advice? I don't find the run of the mill Greninja to be too much difficulty, but if I'm up against a particularly good one, it can be difficult to keep on top of things. It can be hard to keep up with their speed; I've tried Down Smashing them as they run/roll towards me, but they always reach me before the full hitbox animation plays. How do the rest of you deal with them?

Share your strategies

A couple of greninja's weaknessess-

1. If he's in the air, he actually has very few options for attacking below him. Dair isn't awful, but it's EXTREMELY punishable. He can cancel the landing lag with side B, but that's also got a year and a half of lag on the end, so if he's above you there's very little to fear as long as you're ready for dair.

2. Nair has absurd ending lag if he doesn't land. Watch for it if he does it high up or over the edge(he shouldn't, but just be aware).

3. He has almost 0 true combos. Almost all of his damage comes from good reads and poking away with projectiles. Fair also has significant startup, although it's not obvious unless you play him.

Beyond that there isn't much to say(i main ninja but am still learning pit's). He's got very good recovery, especially on levels with walls, but that doesn't mean you can't go out there and gimp him. His power is that he's got very few weakness or strengths.

Pump does seem very powerful vs pits, so maybe use side B to recover, since if the pump kicks you up you can recover with up B still. Reflecting projectiles murders him if you can pull it off. Other than that you just need to play solid. Watch out for his tilts and kill moves(full charged B, pump gimps, fair, uair, smashes(up is his best by FAR) side B, and at high %'s bair).

 

[SwoodGrommet]

A couple of greninja's weaknessess-

1. If he's in the air, he actually has very few options for attacking below him. Dair isn't awful, but it's EXTREMELY punishable. He can cancel the landing lag with side B, but that's also got a year and a half of lag on the end, so if he's above you there's very little to fear as long as you're ready for dair.

2. Nair has absurd ending lag if he doesn't land. Watch for it if he does it high up or over the edge(he shouldn't, but just be aware).

3. He has almost 0 true combos. Almost all of his damage comes from good reads and poking away with projectiles. Fair also has significant startup, although it's not obvious unless you play him.

Beyond that there isn't much to say(i main ninja but am still learning pit's). He's got very good recovery, especially on levels with walls, but that doesn't mean you can't go out there and gimp him. His power is that he's got very few weakness or strengths.

Pump does seem very powerful vs pits, so maybe use side B to recover, since if the pump kicks you up you can recover with up B still. Reflecting projectiles murders him if you can pull it off. Other than that you just need to play solid. Watch out for his tilts and kill moves(full charged B, pump gimps, fair, uair, smashes(up is his best by FAR) side B, and at high %'s bair).

That's great advice, thanks! I think improving on my edge guarding would be my best bet, or even faking him out and baiting him into the Hydro Pump when he's recovering to punish the ending lag. I also have a habit of going straight for the Dair when I'm falling back to the stage, so I should really rethink that idea due to Greninja's Up Smash. Thanks again, I appreciate the tips

 

[CHOMPY]

Things to look out for in the Greninja matchup

1) Up Smash can KO Pit at around 100% (If charged). Istead of going for the Dair to hit Greninja when your right above him, simply jump away from him when your landing.

2) Shurikens can be very annoying to deal with at times, especially when he tries to outcamp you. You can do the same thing by firing off arrows or putting up your shield. Using the orbitars does have ending lag when you use it. Sure it can defect the shuriken, but it doesn't travel very far and I use only use it when Greninja fully charges his shuriken.

3) Greninja enjoys landing Nairs to jab. The answser to that problem is to react quickly by jabbing Greninja right when he lands. Grabbing him won't do you any good because Greninjas jabs come out so quick that you won't have enough time to grab Greninja OoS. If you do get caught in Greninjas jab, DI away and punish him with a Ftilt.

4) If Greninja tries to up throw, then goes after you with an uair, punish him with a dair. That will spike him to the ground and that should stop Greninja dead in its tracks. Again, if Greninja tries to up throw you, jump away from him AT ALL COSTS because you don't want to get caught into his usmash.

 

[LancerStaff]

Hey, Upperdash and Electroshock reflect water shuriken. Managed to KO a few Greninjas by reflecting the fully charged ones.

 

[New_Dumal]

After the update I think this is a neutral Match-up (50 ~ 50).
Pit have more approach options, less kill power/options.
Both has excelent recovery.

I can't say much more since I played this MU with only one good player, and seriously don't think I'm able to say anything but this:
I don't see any of this characters having some advantage above the other right now.
I will watch and play more matches about this MU later.

 

[Shack]

I think the only way Greninja really wins is if he keeps moving and punishes whiffs using his speed. Other than that Pit's DAir beats everything outside of Hydro Pump, more range (aerials and smashes), more KO options, more maneuverability in the air, faster grab and 2 reflect options. I would say to use your long hit boxes to wall him out. That is what I have trouble with the most as a Greninja player since Greninja's safest approach is usually to short hop nair (which requires some strict timing compared to pits moves). Pit can shield grab him out of it or meet him in the air with a fair or nair.

Greninja outspeeds Pit and can definitely combo and juggle him easily if he can land a solid grab, NAir, DAir. His BAir is really strong so watch out for that when recovering or in the air. Greninja lacks kill options though and relies off good reads, some of those insane perfect pivot combos or UAir spike combos.

Pit seems to acel more with platforms, I hate playing on Battlefield because it stops most of my approaches, combos and most of my moves have too much start up lag to use with platforms.

I think right now the matchup is slightly in Pit's favor. Just hop around and spam DAirs

 

[Wa_Black]

I think the only way Greninja really wins is if he keeps moving and punishes whiffs using his speed. Other than that Pit's DAir beats everything outside of Hydro Pump, more range (aerials and smashes), more KO options, more maneuverability in the air, faster grab and 2 reflect options. I would say to use your long hit boxes to wall him out. That is what I have trouble with the most as a Greninja player since Greninja's safest approach is usually to short hop nair (which requires some strict timing compared to pits moves). Pit can shield grab him out of it or meet him in the air with a fair or nair.

Greninja outspeeds Pit and can definitely combo and juggle him easily if he can land a solid grab, NAir, DAir. His BAir is really strong so watch out for that when recovering or in the air. Greninja lacks kill options though and relies off good reads, some of those insane perfect pivot combos or UAir spike combos.

Pit seems to acel more with platforms, I hate playing on Battlefield because it stops most of my approaches, combos and most of my moves have too much start up lag to use with platforms.

I think right now the matchup is slightly in Pit's favor

does our f smash out reach theirs? Besides respecting their DAir ia there a way to counter it from under the move. I know aerials from the side beat it, and I know that there is risk associated with trying to up smash it.

 

[Shack]

After a lot of games last night against my friend's Pit, I have some moro info on the match up.

Greninja seems to have some trouble on big stages because of the lack of kill options unless already on the edge. I find myself doing a lot better on Smashville vs Final Destination. Part of it could also be that bigger stages give Pit more room to evade with.

Greninjas bair is too good against Pits recovery and a really good option when he in the air period. If Pit is directly above Greninja, Greninja has the option to uair or bait out a move so he can bair.

Everything Greninja does is easily punishable on whiff/shield outside of jab and dtilt.

I started winning a lot more when I focused on baiting out Pits moves, they actually have some decent recovery time and are easy to punish with a running grab. If I tried to dictate the match with pure aggression, I found myself eating a random fsmash, side b, or aerial since they all have some good range and hit boxes.

I believe a good Pit will use side b to punish often. If Pit is in mid range, anytime Greninja throws a shuriken, charges a smash or uses a whiffed aerial, that should be an easy side b.

I still think Pit has a slight favor in the matchup since he does have a lot of tools that shut down Greninja's pokes and approaches. Greninja has to use a lot of speed and constantly move around.

does our f smash out reach theirs? Besides respecting their DAir ia there a way to counter it from under the move. I know aerials from the side beat it, and I know that there is risk associated with trying to up smash it.

The 2nd hit of Pit's fsmash has more range than Greninjas. The only way to counter dair so far is to shield grab it or Hydro Pump downward so the water bubble pushes them away.