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VS Bowser - Matchup Discussion and Analysis

DiscoSpider

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
7
Not particularly sure. But from my experience against Bowser, he may be slow but his attacks cover a good amount of space and can compete against Marth's range.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
"Just run in, grab, mix up with Bowser Bomb and jab, he can't do anything to us +1" - is what we would have said in 1.04. Back then, Bowser was the one good heavy in the game, and Marth players were still convinced they could live on a diet of Fairs if they just kept trying. Things have changed, even Lucina seems functional. Jab confirms into dancing blade, Falling Uair confirms into Usmash, aerials are pretty safe on cross up.

But Bowser still has his little advantages against Marth. I would take Marth to FD. The lack of platform vericality lets our Bowser Breath shine in a way rarely seen. It's not just that Marth has no means of long range combat to punish the move. It's his slow, floatiness in the air that make it hard for him to punish smart use of Fire Breath before Bowser can pull up shield. Also, FD is a stage where Bowsercide kills both targets at once. Even if we're playing on a stage where Bowsercide lets go of Marth, Marth cannot return to the ledge from all the way down there using his recovery moves. So be wary of our frame 8 command grab should Bowser get the stock lead. Also, mind our jab. I don't know how often Marths go for that dash grab, but if he's hit by the close or medium portion of Jab 1, he can't escape followups. Even if you reacted in time to pull up shield, Jab to dash grab and Jab to dash Side B are sort of our go to anyway. We can Dair Dunk your recovery and live. We kill early, we die late. Meaty targets like Bowser often receive non-tipper hits due to hitbox ID and hurtbox connections. And do mind the Bomb. Full charged F-smash deals 32% damage and we may push you toward the ledge a bit first

Bowser's limbs become intangible when hitboxes are active, so it's sort of akin to being a sword if we wanted to challenge marth's attacks. However, if you try to outzone Marth with non-projectile attacks, you'll generally get hurt. We're never looking for ways to give our opponents a fair fight, and I don't think Bowser playstyle puts Marth in a position where he can't be played comfortably and optimally. Bowser's usual options like frugal use of Jab as they approach and Pivot grab don't come into play when Marth stays spaced. Marth's attacks are so well spaced that OoS Fortress can be extremely questionable outside of Marth trying an aerial cross up. And if we can't use that, we're in trouble when it comes to block punishing. Bowser does not favor the air. His aerials are good, landing and recovery are the hard part. Whirling Fortress can take us far, but it's a slow moving target whose hitboxes are not heavily disjointed. Use your range to keep tacking on damage as he attempts to recover. Your counter could serve as an "easy mode" approach for this, just remember the damage your returning is a measly 2% multihit move. We'll be saving our double jump for when we need it most, so stay on us should we waste it. And with our 6 frame hard landing lag, find time to get opportunistic with Falling Nair 1, Jab 1, anything that pops us slightly in the air.

In a customs environment, Bowser is a monster. Trading out Fire Breath for the superior, long ranged Fire Shot should be a huge boon for this MU. It reaches farther, doesn't need time to recharge, travels slowly and can't be swatted out of the air. Annoying enough to force any approach. But more importantly is our Dash Slash. Flying Slam's command grab makes for an excellent kill option, Bowsercide or no. But Dash Slash makes us a whole new character. Making full use of the six frames hard landing lag that all Side B's suffer, the move sets up for aerial followups on hit, and is criminally safe on block in addition to cross up potential. Your shield are not safe, and many of our woes from being offstage disappear with this movement option. It lets us recover high, way overhead from the ledge where edgeguards are a distant memory. We can even use it to go under some stages and back up to the other side.

As for the verdict, I'm inconclusive beyond a 50:50 and would wait for the input of Marcina mains. When it comes to MUs that we have true advantage, one thing is constant. If you can't kill Bowser at a reasonable percent (120 or earlier), and don't have a fantastic combo game to reach such a high number, you are letting Bowser play to his strengths. Rage is a very real threat when all of his moves can potentially kill. It even improves his lofty frame advantage for Jab followups. Knowing this, it's reasonable to assume Marth does better than Lucina due to Tipper hits. But her higher damage output and followups from Jab and Nair are mean. Just realize that the bulk of your attacks launch horizontally, not vertically. When it comes to vertical KOs, Bowser is only the third best at surviving due to slow fall speed, so if Marcina had a prominent Vertical kill move, perhaps something out of a throw, that would be ideal, but they do not. It's a slug fest, and we wouldn't have it any other way. :4bowser:
 
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