Vs Bowser advice?

[Kalierdarke]

On average, I can deal with most characters, often my losses just come down to my opponent being just better in neutral than I am(and me mistiming air dodges).

However, I've noticed one thing, I seem to have a problem with bowser. and I don't mean average bowsers, I mean decent to good bowsers. Or, more specifically, sub 40% damage bowsers. Once I get them above 40% I can usually get the upper hand, but before that they just toss me around like a rag doll, and anything other than a throw gets me punched back in the face. Any good advice for getting bowser's fat arse off the ground?

 

[Odaroloc]

SH nair FF usually does the trick. Bowser's so big that your Rest is much easier to get as well. Decent Bowsers wait and punish rather than rush, so you have to bait them out. Stay low to the ground (still in the air), but keep a fair distance away from him.Let him attack first and be the punisher. Once he's at that 40% range, rest should be your priority. Go into training and see what % Bowser dies to Rest at different areas.

 

[SafCar]

As someone who seconds Bowser, it is pretty much all about bait & punish. However, Jigglypuff can duck under his Fsmash, which makes for excellent setup into Rest. Not to mention Bowser's dair and Bowser Bomb have bad landing lag and can lead to a free rest if they whiff.

 

[33percentgod]

I main Bowser and the problem is all you rely on rest as your ONLY kill option. If I am up against Jiggly, I know the entire match up will consist of you doing forward air until you get enough damage, then do the Jigglypuff sleep song, and then rest. It's like watching a broken record, because every player does it. There's no variety or change up. I rarely even see them use anything requiring the B button. I literally just sit there and won't move. Seriously. I'll just wait for you to keep coming in with your short hops that gets repeated x283592359 and punish every time. I will not touch the D pad to come at you.

Essentially your way to beat Bowser is to change up your moveset to get us to attack/bait us out to punish. If the only thing you're going to do is pepper us with jabs until our % is high enough for you to hit rest and ignore any of your other moves, you aren't going to win.

 

[Kalierdarke]

I main Bowser and the problem is all you rely on rest as your ONLY kill option. If I am up against Jiggly, I know the entire match up will consist of you doing forward air until you get enough damage, then do the Jigglypuff sleep song, and then rest. It's like watching a broken record, because every player does it. There's no variety or change up. I rarely even see them use anything requiring the B button. I literally just sit there and won't move. Seriously. I'll just wait for you to keep coming in with your short hops that gets repeated x283592359 and punish every time. I will not touch the D pad to come at you.

Essentially your way to beat Bowser is to change up your moveset to get us to attack/bait us out to punish. If the only thing you're going to do is pepper us with jabs until our % is high enough for you to hit rest and ignore any of your other moves, you aren't going to win.

FYI, I rarely use rest, so no, ALL of us do not rely on rest as our ONLY kill move. I usually kill with gimps, up tilt, and bair. Rest I save for situations where I'm guaranteed to land it.

 

[Glacey]

FYI, I rarely use rest, so no, ALL of us do not rely on rest as our ONLY kill move. I usually kill with gimps, up tilt, and bair. Rest I save for situations where I'm guaranteed to land it.

removed - very rude response, sorry to anyone who read it

 

[33percentgod]

Pretty sure he's someone who thinks they're the hottest **** around because their for glory winrate is high. As for your question, I feel you. It only takes 1 hit from Bowser at decent percents to be sent flying, and you're just a hacky sack to him at low percents. As SafCar said, it's a lot of baiting and punishing. One hit on him might not mean much, but if he hits you that's a different story.

Are you crazy? I lose constantly...probably more than I win. I'm sorry if my tone was dismissing, but it wasn't meant to be that. I just get annoyed by repetition and the Jiggly players I encounter are the worst offenders (Ness being 2nd.)

In my experiences, all the players use the fair to pepper % and then rest. I honestly don't think I've EVER been killed by any Jiggly smash moves. I main Bowser and the way to get to him it's to switch up variety, bait us out, and then punish. Plus Bowser HATES to be in the air, which is where Jiggly thrives, so get us in the air and juggle us around.

 

[Glacey]

Are you crazy? I lose constantly...probably more than I win. I'm sorry if my tone was dismissing, but it wasn't meant to be that. I just get annoyed by repetition and the Jiggly players I encounter are the worst offenders (Ness being 2nd.)

In my experiences, all the players use the fair to pepper % and then rest. I honestly don't think I've EVER been killed by any Jiggly smash moves. I main Bowser and the way to get to him it's to switch up variety, bait us out, and then punish. Plus Bowser HATES to be in the air, which is where Jiggly thrives, so get us in the air and juggle us around.

Yeah sorry, I guess I just know too many people who think like that. I'd probably say the same thing if I was in your position. Jiggs who do that are funny

 

[Kalierdarke]

I will admit, there are a lot of bad puff players out there. I get a laugh out of every person that loses to my puff, then SWITCHES to puff, and just gets tossed around like a ragdoll. I mean, I end up tossing them around about like how that bowser tossed me around.

I haven't really had a chance to practice more against bowser, because I haven't faced another good one since asking, at least not with puff(had one while I was practicing M2 but he left after one loss).

Like I said though, my only problem with bowser was getting the early %s without resorting to using nothing but throws, as even when I would land a hit, I would just get punched back in the face for a lot more than I chipped. Bowser and his stupid armor at low %s =P

 

[drakeirving]

Honestly, if you're losing a lot against players who just repeat the same strategy over and over, you're going to stay stuck fighting that tier of players. If you want to see more varied plays, then beat them and either force them to change it up or move up to better players. Personally I'm happy when I get a decent Bowser because a good 80% of FG Bowsers even where I'm at are still mind-numbingly free. If fair strings and baiting out a dair or bomb to Rest it is all it takes to beat you, it'd be no surprise why nobody bothers changing it up.

Anyways, Puff's smashes aren't very good for general play. Fsmash is the best of them and you can use it for reading rolls, but upsmash and dsmash aren't going to be often used, especially how unsafe they are on shield, how slowly they come out, and their piddly range. "Anything requiring the B button" is likely only going to be Pound until a Rest opportunity, because Sing is garbage at all times and Rollout is garbage outside of some tech punishes. Judging by your complaints I'm not sure you quite understand Jigglypuff's moveset?

 

[Kalierdarke]

because Sing is garbage at all times

I'm going to have to disagree. or more precisely, correct the statement. It's only garbage -most- of the time. in some cases it can actually be a good play as it isn't expected and can net you an easy KO by a followup f-smash or utilt. Of course, it isn't something that should be thrown out often. I've stopped sonic spindashes with it,as well as landed it on players expecting an aerial and dropping their shield when they think they can safely poke. But I use it maybe once in every... 20? matches. Aside from the occasional ledge canceled sing.

 

[Dapplegonger]

I wouldn't recommend using Sing unless you are ledge canceling it to mess with someone waiting at the edge.

Also, Rest is really good vs Bowser. He dies at around 65-70% to Rest, and you can combo an up-air -> rest at about 60-65%. To be honest, Rest is really easy to land on Bowser just to a whiffed move because he is a big target and his moves are laggy. The nice thing about Bowser is that once you get one fair/nair, it is really easy to keep a string of them going unless the Bowser has crazy good DI. However, even though you can get a string really easily, Puff cannot be hyper-aggressive, which is what a lot of bad Puff players do. You have to wait for Bowser to approach: most of his approaching moves (aerials, dash attack) are super laggy and easily punishable.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Eh, I don't recommend using Sing either. I occasionally throw it out because I have a fair track record of landing it at %s that it's actually useful( ie- 7/10 hit and I'm usually in a safe position to use it)

 

[33percentgod]

I will admit, there are a lot of bad puff players out there. I get a laugh out of every person that loses to my puff, then SWITCHES to puff, and just gets tossed around like a ragdoll. I mean, I end up tossing them around about like how that bowser tossed me around.

I haven't really had a chance to practice more against bowser, because I haven't faced another good one since asking, at least not with puff(had one while I was practicing M2 but he left after one loss).

Like I said though, my only problem with bowser was getting the early %s without resorting to using nothing but throws, as even when I would land a hit, I would just get punched back in the face for a lot more than I chipped. Bowser and his stupid armor at low %s =P

You're welcome to practice with me.... wifi-warrior status. I only own a 3DS though.

 

[Kalierdarke]

You're welcome to practice with me.... wifi-warrior status. I only own a 3DS though.

Sure, I'd at least put up a better fight than most of the puffs you fight

 

[PandaEffect]

Not going to write about every possible situation but here are a few rules I follow when I fight a Bowser:

The whole match up is based around baiting his defensive options and about stage control.

Bowser will walk slowly towards you using jab and tilts and sh fair to try to space you out and towards the corner where you have less options and are forced to commit to go above him or be in an edge guard situation which can actually be pretty tough if you don't recover high because of the tilts and fire covering Jiggs' slow ledge snap options.

At lower percentages If Bowser is trying to control the air using fair, if you can space well it's definitely punishable.
Dashing and shielding to punish predictable tilt timing is decent too.

If you are going to throw out an aerial, beware that crossing Bowser up isn't very easy as up B out of shield has pretty solid range and it's one of Bowser's best moves. Even if you are PUNISHING something with an aerial, at low percents it could be unsafe due to how little knockback Bowser receives at low percentage.

If you block a tilt, his up B, a misplaced aerial, etc, your best punish is rising dair out of shield. It's EXTREMELY easy to combo into rest from it because of Bowser's size, and you can combo into other dairs at 30%-70% as a true combo.

Make sure to try to bait dairs and down Bs from Bowser and ALWAYS punish them to condition him into NOT using them so you can get more for your buck when you've finally sent him above you where he is the weakest.

Random note: beware of his grab release into tilts which can kill puff pretty early, mash out but make sure you shield.

 

[Burruni]

It's an uphill fight of spacing and landing your disjointed aerial hiboxes for the most part, and even trying to use pound for shield pressure if they are one of the more defensive players.

Our ace in the whole, ESPECIALLY against such massive brutes is our glory of rest that the back end of u-tilt, and even simpler up air combos can go into it fine and kill around 60-70%. The fact that Bowser players are so aggressively oriented, it's a very evasive-punishing game for us. UP+B out of shield and his horizontal aerials are the biggest things you will really have to fear for this gameplay style, imo.

 

[Kojii]

I usually try to poke the first %s, because of Bowser's super armour. I have a lot of Bowser MU experience, but I don't really know what I'm doing :I
I guess hits with strong base knockback, like bair and the first hit of nair can knock him far enough for you to retreat.
A nice fakeout for those sheildhappy Bowsers can be floating towards with some active hitbox, but then land and grab.
I prefer to hit the top part of the sheild when I poke it, because the only attack that can hit when you poke out there is a well angled ftilt from Bowser.
And my last tip, watch out for pivot grabs. Bowser is magneto, snatches you out of the air.