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Villager vs. Cloud matchup

D

Deleted member

Guest
:4villager: vs. :4cloud: MU thoughts?

I've been trying out this matchup, and I find it fairly in Villager's advantage, but clearly not an easy matchup.
:4villager: can gimp :4cloud:, but his massive disjointed hitboxes on :4cloud:'s aerials can be a pain to deal, since they can prevent F/B-airs and Lloids. Limit Break is also a factor, giving :4cloud: a great recovery and a early killing option against :4villager:.

:4villager: can indeed pocket his LB Blade Beam, but I'm pretty sure that the :4cloud: that does that is probably ******** or wanted a hard-arse read.

I personally think the MU is (:4villager:60:40:4cloud:), but I know it's still early to decide that, what are your opinions?
 

Moosseff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
124
Imo villager loses kinda hard to disjointed hitboxes and cloud can play super campy and just powersheild everything. However if you throw cloud offstage and he recovers low you can get a bowling ball off (if you're lucky) or drop down and get a bair, then he either techs or stagespikes. Or watering can for disrespect since he doesnt snap ledge but you wont really kill since he can just DI towards the ledge and grab it. Onstage cloud can kinda body villager however villager has all the tools necessary to keep up in the matchup. The only thing that bugs me about the matchup is cloud uair has a bigger hitbox than villager dair and his uair has more priority. I KNOW RIGHT? Anyway, I say the MU is 55:45 in favor of villager simple because cloud can't do much about fair and bair unless hes airborn and even then his aerials are kinda slow to hit villagers aerials. Cloud is still really fun to play as tho :p
 

JohnnyB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
228
Yeah with my for glory first impressions i think Cloud wins the neutral. His aerials are crazy good and beat ours easily. Nair eats slingshots for breakfast, his uair eats dairs for lunch and i think his dair eats uair for dinner too. He also gains so much more from camping than Villager does, so in a way he forces approaches. Grounded he isn't any slouch either. Dtilt is amazing for getting under attacks and setting up combos, utilt starts combos as well although you can sometimes break his strings with ff nair just like you can with mario/shiek when they try the utilt cheese on you. Because of his damage output, kill power, and lack of startup on a lot of moves it's dangerous to go in on him.

Cloud seems to have a much wider area that he can play footsies. He can camp and charge limit, or move into spacing range and attack. His weakness is just outside of his sword range where you can still hit him with slimgshots but he can't answer with anything but blade beam, which you can simply pocket and user against him.

Limits are really a wild card right now. There are so many potential strategies on when and where to use them that it's basically impossible to say how they will effect Cloud matches other than the obvious fact that you want to keep him from getting it. However, once he does have it you no longer have any pressure to approach what so ever. This is the point that i like to half water a sapling and play some keep away. I, however, suck ass at keep away (Ranai makes it look so easy), so reaults have been less than optimistic lol.

I still think the mu is going to land somewhere close to even but he really does seem to have many advantages over us:

-We have quick, disjointed, lasting aerials ---> he had bigger disjoints and breaks slingshots with nair

-We can camp/zone him out ---> he can just charge his limit if we don't approach.

-We don't really have bread and butter kill confirms ---> he has kill confirms to his limit moves, and many of his moves kill super early (i have been fair spiked, bounced off of the floor, and killed off the top at mid 100%s)

-Our grab is a top contender for worst in the game, but our throws are good ---> his grab is average, although his throws are trash.

I don't really know what else to say. Our main advantage is gimping, but that doesn't really help when he can kill us as soon as we get into triple digit %s or even sooner of he lands a finishing touch.

I still think there is a good chance that this mu will be close to even or possibly in Villagers favor, but it is not by any means going to be easy and is going to require us to press our few advantages father than Cloud can exploit the many advantages he seems to have over us.

Just my extremely extrapolative two cents.
 

The Green Lanyard

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 6, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Michigan
I have no idea what to do when a grounded Cloud is standing just a bit more than Cloud's f-tilt distance from me, just waiting for a reaction from me, especially when my back's to the ledge. Lloid's too slow, sh-immediate fair goes over his head, grab's too slow, d-tilt/f-tilt's won't reach him.

What am I supposed to do in this situation?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I have no idea what to do when a grounded Cloud is standing just a bit more than Cloud's f-tilt distance from me, just waiting for a reaction from me, especially when my back's to the ledge. Lloid's too slow, sh-immediate fair goes over his head, grab's too slow, d-tilt/f-tilt's won't reach him.

What am I supposed to do in this situation?
I would do a SHFF Retreating F-Air -> Lloid, and try to regain stage control and resetting neutral.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Thanks. And if I'm standing at the ledge in this situation? Should I try to bait out a reaction with an empty jab or something?

You can do the same, Villager's ledge game is not bad, you can camp him until you can set your grounds.
 
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