Veteran Looking for Advice: Picking a Main.

[xXSinistarXx]

Picking a Main, Fox vs Falco vs Marth vs Shiek?
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So I recently purchased Melee and I have been playing the game for six days so far. I have been playing smash for seven years so I have a pretty good understanding of the core mechanics of the game. When I jumped into melee I wanted to pick a character that will be viable in competitive play, but I would also have fun learning and enjoying the game. I also wanted to find a character that would match my play style which is aggressive and combo heavy but I want to maintain control. I also believe I have decent tech skills because I have been able to short hop lazer, wave-dash and do some brief multi-shines pretty consistently. I have put at least five hours with each character who were Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek. My problem is that none of these characters felt like I completely thought were perfect for me or they had a querk in them I did not like.

1. Fox

Fox is currently the top fox of the tier list. I immediately decided to try him out even though I knew of how technically demanding he is to play at the top level. I immediately loved how powerful he was and his great combing abilities. I am also knew he is capable of so much more and the thought of that excited me. The problem with him rose when I tried practicing some tech such as wave-dashing and short-hoping. However, I have never played a character that was so hard to short-hop with and I was able to short-hop consistently with the other characters. I also have never suicide as much with any character when compared to him. He felt very difficult to control simply. It simply felt like everything I knew about the game I had to throw out the window to play fox which is not very comfortable for me.

2. Shiek

I was very interested in trying shiek because I play shiek as a secondary in smash 4. I found her to be very different in many ways. I first loved how fluid her attacks were and I immediately noticed how superb her edge-guarding game is. I also knew that her chain-grab would keep me safe from a lot of low tier characters and her grabs in general set up for some amazing combos. However, she was not the most fun character to play and I felt like I got a lot of cheesing wins against a lot of the computer A.I. There really is not a lot about her to practice except her planking and maneuvering through platforms. I also heard that she relies heavily on predictions and tech-chases which are one of weaknesses in smash.

3. Marth

After shiek I moved onto marth whom I found to be a very interesting characters. He has fearsome range, power, and combos that felt very satisfying to pull off (Ken combo is glorious). I liked how he also moved very fluidly and how easy he was to control. The problem was is that his optimal style of play is not always my favorite which is perfect spacing. While I know this a great way to improve on my fundamentals it also felt like a hindrance. I also was not pleased with the lack of a projectile or terrible recovery.

4. Falco

Falco was the last character I tried and he easily became one of my favorites and I played falco as secondary in brawl. In a way he was similar to fox but just as satisfying as marth with shine to dair combos. I was easily able to master his tech with SHFFL lazers along with short hopping. Another plus to falco was that I found his the easiest to control along with marth. There were two main problems with him. Number One: His wave-dash felt really awkward and It was difficult to get the right timing (fox felt much easier to wave-dash with). Number Two: If I screwed up with falco I am almost certainly dead because of his mediocre recovery and fast falling speed. Fox at least was able to recover from afar even though he is so light. In short I feel like a total glass cannon and I am not sure If I am totally ok with that.

Please comment and give me advice and feedback for what character I should choose and maybe you could teach me how to overcome the characters shortcomings.​

 

[Spak]

Before starting into the character-specific stuff, I would recommend putting a decent amount of time into each of the top tiers (1-8 on the tier list) before trying to make a decision on one. No character is perfect, but for example, the description you gave of your playstyle (aggressive and combo heavy) sounds like a trait of either Spacies or Falcon. Learning how to move and properly control your character comes with training, as all characters have their unique traits that one must learn in order to properly control their main.

Furthermore, I am fairly confident that six days isn't enough to "master" tech, as you need to learn how to apply it in an actual match against humans (who can adapt to your play) for it to be of any use. For instance, in SHL you need to FF at the right time so that you laser at a good height and get the full benefits of land cancelling the laser. Also, I would highly recommend learning more vital tech like L-Cancelling before multi-shining, as you would probably never need to multishine in a match (unless 20XX is achieved.)

OK then, on to the specific characters:

1. Fox

Fox is currently the top fox of the tier list. I immediately decided to try him out even though I knew of how technically demanding he is to play at the top level. I immediately loved how powerful he was and his great combing abilities. I am also knew he is capable of so much more and the thought of that excited me. The problem with him rose when I tried practicing some tech such as wave-dashing and short-hoping. However, I have never played a character that was so hard to short-hop with and I was able to short-hop consistently with the other characters. I also have never suicide as much with any character when compared to him. He felt very difficult to control simply. It simply felt like everything I knew about the game I had to throw out the window to play fox which is not very comfortable for me.

Fox has a very good combo game, but I'd say that what separates him from the rest of the cast is his amazing kill potential. He has the strongest charged U-Smash in the game (2nd strongest uncharged, right behind Pika,) his shine is probably the best gimping tool in the entire game, his U-Throw chains into Uair on a lot of the cast (the second hit of which can kill very easily,) and his speed allows for very smooth edgeguarding. His shine is also pretty much the most broken move in the game. It's big, comes out of frame 1, can gimp or lead into a grab, U-Smash, or another shine, and can interrupt your opponent's combos in frustrating ways (if you read them well.) His SH is hard to get, but it actually benefits him more than you would think because it also means that he gets off of the ground faster than (or as fast as) anyone else in the game. SDing constantly isn't a problem with the character that you should consider for choosing a main, as that's a problem with control that will fix itself as you learn what options to select in what situations, how to properly execute certain tech, and just train in general. Fox is definitely one of (if not the) hardest characters to play in the game, but he's also the most rewarding in terms of results at high level.

2. Shiek

I was very interested in trying shiek because I play shiek as a secondary in smash 4. I found her to be very different in many ways. I first loved how fluid her attacks were and I immediately noticed how superb her edge-guarding game is. I also knew that her chain-grab would keep me safe from a lot of low tier characters and her grabs in general set up for some amazing combos. However, she was not the most fun character to play and I felt like I got a lot of cheesing wins against a lot of the computer A.I. There really is not a lot about her to practice except her planking and maneuvering through platforms. I also heard that she relies heavily on predictions and tech-chases which are one of weaknesses in smash.

Shiek is probably the best edgeguarding character in the game because her aerials stay out forever and are super disjointed, plus needles have a good amount of stun and you can shoot them down at around a 315° angle. She has a lot of guaranteed combos on pretty much all of the cast, so you would have to do a lot of percent memorization to figure out what would be optimal against what characters in various percent ranges. Shiek is very much an execution-dependent character because if you constantly drop guaranteed combos, Falcon and the Spacies will combo you into oblivion and take advantage of your sub-par recovery (if they're good.) Tech chases can be reactionary rather than prediction-based with Shiek because of how fast and good boost grab is, and a lot of her stuff true combos no matter how you DI (although there are some places where you'll have to mix up your option selection because D-Throw -> Fair wouldn't be guaranteed,) so Shiek is actually a fairly low-risk character in my opinion. Chaingrabbing and tech chasing with Shiek are fairly simple and easy ways to rack of percent, but it's also a fairly simple and easy way to end other people's respect for you as a human being lol.

3. Marth

After shiek I moved onto marth whom I found to be a very interesting characters. He has fearsome range, power, and combos that felt very satisfying to pull off (Ken combo is glorious). I liked how he also moved very fluidly and how easy he was to control. The problem was is that his optimal style of play is not always my favorite which is perfect spacing. While I know this a great way to improve on my fundamentals it also felt like a hindrance. I also was not pleased with the lack of a projectile or terrible recovery.

Marth is really easy to play low level, but harder to pull off when you start to get to high level. At high level, he's mostly percent memorization to know what will work and what won't. Marth's tipper is the best F-Smash in the game, Marth's range makes him really good for zoning (just look at how much space he can cover OoS,) plus the threat of F-Smash, F-Tilt, or U-Tilt going through platform significantly limits the opponents' movement on a smaller stage. Marth's chaingrab and guaranteed combos on Spacies makes the MU more even than most, but Marth's fairly predictable recovery means that he'll die pretty early if the person playing against Marth knows how to properly edgeguard. Also, Marth's floatiness means that he dies off the top earlier than a lot of the cast, and his weight means he gets comboed more easily than a lot of other characters. Also, if you have bad spacing, you need to improve it; spacing properly is a HUGE deal Melee, no matter what character you play.

4. Falco

Falco was the last character I tried and he easily became one of my favorites and I played falco as secondary in brawl. In a way he was similar to fox but just as satisfying as marth with shine to dair combos. I was easily able to master his tech with SHFL lazers along with short hopping. Another plus to falco was that I found his the easiest to control along with marth. There were two main problems with him. Number One: His wave-dash felt really awkward and It was difficult to get the right timing (fox felt much easier to wave-dash with). Number Two: If I screwed up with falco I am almost certainly dead because of his mediocre recovery and fast falling speed. Fox at least was able to recover from afar even though he is so light. In short I feel like a total glass cannon and I am not sure If I am totally ok with that.

I'm starting to think that you don't actually know all of the technical terms for this game... SHFFL (not SHFL) stands for Short Hop Fast Fall L-Cancel. SHL is Short Hop Laser. Saying "I was easily able to maser his tech with SHFL lazers along with short hopping" is literally saying "I was easily able to master his tech with Short Hop Fast Laser lazers along with short hopping."

Anyways, Falco's WD probably felt weird to you because of his longer jumpsquat (which means he takes longer to get in the air than Fox, but he's easier to SH with,) and if you decide to switch to Falco, you'll have little trouble getting adjusted to the new timing. For your second concern, the way to avoid killing yourself is not screwing up. Falco's Phantasm is actually better than Fox's Illusion for horizontal recovery, and Falco's Up-B starts sooner than Fox's does. Falco is easy to gimp because of his relatively short vertical recovery, but that's a sacrifice that you have to make for one of the best gimps in the game (Dair.) Falco's lasers are the best projectile in the game because it stuffs the opponent's movement so much while dealing damage and putting them into stun so that you have a way to get in on them, shine is the best comboing move in the entire game, pillaring is OP if the opponent doesn't know how to SDI out of it, Falco has arguably the best shield pressure in the game, and his damage output from combos are as good as (if not better than) Fox's. Like Fox, Falco's required level of execution is very high in comparison to a majority of the cast, but he does really well at high levels. I'd say Falco's main disadvantage in comparison to Fox is the fact that he's a much slower character in general, but Falco is very solid nevertheless.

I finished this message at 12:12 in the morning and I've been up since 8, so I'm sorry if it got a little unclear and rambley about halfway through. Here's some music to get you pumped for more Smashing:

EDIT: Changed from this to this. Everyone needs a little bit of Buckethead in their life

 

[xXSinistarXx]

First off I would like to thank you for putting the time into doing this and it means a lot to me truthfully. I definitely made some mistakes in the post (I was in a bit of a rush when I made this post and definitely do not have perfect grammar, use of terms etc). I am happy you sorted through my shortcoming and gave me advice. Now onto the point.

For fox I definitely see why a lot of pros choose him and I am definitely no master of tech yet but I learning it though. I actually was just putting some more time with fox and I am actually enjoying his short hop much more than I used to and as always with practice I can overcome the struggle of preforming it. I think It would just take more time to decide whether I would want to pick him but he intrigues me a lot.

For shiek I don't know think if I would want to solo main her (I do not want to be know as one of those "filthy shiek mains"). I do see her as a very strong supporting character and I could just pick her up to deal with bad match ups. I also did research on her tech-chasing options and I saw what you meant with "reactionary". In the end I do like her a little more than I thought initially.

Now onto marth. Along with fox I did some more testing with him and practice. In the end I learned about some of marths tech chasing options, chain grabs on fox and falco along with combos. I also watched some of PPMD's gameplay at Apex 2015 of him using marth (his marth is a work of art lol). He seems like a lot more versatile than I initially thought after watching the gameplay. I think playing marth I could learn to improve a lot of aspects in my gameplay as running away from my flaws as a player wont make me any better, maybe I could play him along with another character. (Thank you for that chart btw).

At last falco. I definetly found falco easier to play than fox, yet there is still much to learn. He felt very natural to me with the exception of wave-dashing. His lazers allows me to control the pact of the game yet maintain the aggressive combo heavy style I like(I really screwed up when I said SHFL). However, in the long run I see fox as a more appealing choice and when handling floaties such as as peach or jigglypuff.

In the end I am starting to like the idea of maybe picking two characters. I could play an easier character such as marth (I know he is hard later) or sheik. But in the background I am developing a fox or falco that I can use one I have well developed the character. What are your thoughts on the idea?

(I am gonna look at that band you listed, I have good first impressions lol)
Spak​

 

[xXSinistarXx]

I am looking at some of the other characters as well such as C.Falcon, Peach and Samus as well.

 

[Spak]

In the end I am starting to like the idea of maybe picking two characters. I could play an easier character such as marth (I know he is hard later) or sheik. But in the background I am developing a fox or falco that I can use one I have well developed the character. What are your thoughts on the idea?

First off, I'd like to apologize for the aggressive wording of some of the stuff in there (especially on Falco's SHL; I probably shoulda just dropped that part since I know what you meant.) I tend to get grumpy close to 11:00 PM (which is about the time when I started that post,) and it took a little longer than expected.

Anyways, I wouldn't recommend that you pick up a serious secondary until you've been maining one character for a year at the bare minimum. There could be a character you play whenever you get super bored in friendlies, but I wouldn't want to encourage you to put a significant amount of time into training that character yet. Any time you would spend playing a secondary is time you could spend improving your main.

 

[Ravengeance]

The only real piece of advice I can give is that if you play other smashes (you mentioned playing sheik as your secondary in sm4sh) it's hard to keep their playstyles separate. Mew2King avoided Sheik in Sm4sh bc he didn't want to mess up his Melee Sheik. I thought that wouldn't be a big deal but as a Melee Fox player when I played Fox in Sm4sh I found I kept doing Melee things with Fox and even though some things are the same some things are different with the character. Like significant differences and even when I tried my Melee habits would still come through.

You can also dual main characters. Every character has strengths and weaknesses and they can vary a bit based on matchup and also on stage. For example M2K plays marth on FD and Stadium and Sheik on all other stages most of the time. A lot of Falco players will go Fox in certain matchups like vs peach or puff.

It's better to have 1 good character than 2 okay characters. The good thing about melee is unless you plan on winning 1000 entrant tournaments there's a decent variety of characters you can use. Don't feel compelled to play a character just bc on paper they are better. Sheik was considered the best for years but now it's pretty unanimously agreed Fox is the best. I think Fox is the hardest character to play and Falco is the 2nd hardest. They are both glass cannons. Dual maining usually develops from one character covering anothers weakness or having variety in your gameplay. Armada plays Peach and Fox and he developed Fox bc of Peach's bad matchups. But the two characters are very different. Peach is floaty with an amazing recovery. Fox is a fast faller and gets combo'ed easily.

A lot of the top characters don't have great recoveries. Falcon, Marth, Sheik, Falco, Fox all have fairly straightforward recoveries. Falcon and Marth just go up at an angle, Sheik can either Up to ledge or land on stage (which has a ton of end lag) Fox and Falco have their side B's to mix up and they can angle their up B's but both of them with their up B's is fairly slow and easy for an opponent to get in position to punish. If you want a good recovery then Peach and Puff are your best option but they are floating they aren't really combo you like fox marth or falcon are. You could play pikachu and get a little of everything maybe but it sounds like you might enjoy playing two different characters with different styles. I think like PPMD who plays Marth and Falco.

Spak makes a good point about like getting really good with one character before trying to have a solid secondary. It depends on how serious you are about Melee. If you can try netplay or play friendlies at a local tournament and try out a few characters and you will see how you perform against real humans and what you like and don't like becomes a lot clearer than just trying to play bots.

In the end play who you enjoy the most. The players who can make a living off of smash are very few and far between and having been grinding the game for years. Don't get discourage by skill gaps or losing badly.

tldr; Try to main a character you don't main in other smash games. Try to figure a Main before you pick a secondary. Remember it's just a game and play who you enjoy the most not just who you think is the best.