Version 1.0.8 Changes

[A2ZOMG]

Not to insult you as a player (you explained it very well), but does this basically mean that Mario will no longer be high-tier and instead be mid-tier? Since the latest patch, I kinda feel uncomfortable with some matchups that I previously had a easier time before, but now, it becomes slightly more difficult. I kinda hate that patch! I really thought that the 1.0.7 version was perfectly balanced (almost perfectly), but now, it's just ugh. Hate the Rosalina buff!

Mario's always been overrated...ZeRo just glosses over details and some players like Ally and a few others get really stupid results because they're good players even though you can see in matches like Will vs Ally that Mario has some pretty stupidly hard matchups.

It sorta helps that several of the characters who were top competitive picks just so also happen to not always have the best raw walling tools and aerials for edgeguarding. Like, Fox is pretty scary in many different ways, but he can't do jack **** to Mario's biggest weaknesses for the most part.

But if Link is now a big competitive threat, which I do believe he is, yeah. Kinda sucks for Mario, because the matchup was never exactly easy for him, but now Link likely wins it very solidly.

 

[Super FOG]

Not to insult you as a player (you explained it very well), but does this basically mean that Mario will no longer be high-tier and instead be mid-tier? Since the latest patch, I kinda feel uncomfortable with some matchups that I previously had a easier time before, but now, it becomes slightly more difficult. I kinda hate that patch! I really thought that the 1.0.7 version was perfectly balanced (almost perfectly), but now, it's just ugh. Hate the Rosalina buff!

That Rosalina buff was the fuel of my nightmares! I already hate this MU because I never won, and instead they nerfing that goddamn Rosalina, they give her an unneccessary buff.

 

[Kulty]

So yeah, I really feel it's gonna be like Melee's metagame development. I probably might have to pick another character if that's the case (probably and ). I really won't drop , but it's just that I feel he still has the potential of being a great tournament viable character.

 

[Kulty]

That Rosalina buff was the fuel of my nightmares! I already hate this MU because I never won, and instead they nerfing that goddamn Rosalina, they give her an unneccessary buff.

I know right! I really don't get that logic behind that buff. Rosalina is already a top-tier character, and you nerf characters like Captain Falcon and Diddy (kinda understand it, but he was perfectly fine in the latest patch)? I feel that we should nerf Rosalina's Uair knockback, because that move is just a nightmare for so many characters, including Mario. So pissed about that patch.

 

[A2ZOMG]

That Rosalina buff was the fuel of my nightmares! I already hate this MU because I never won, and instead they nerfing that goddamn Rosalina, they give her an unneccessary buff.

That buff (Luma HP from 47 -> 50) really doesn't change Mario vs Rosalina (it's still a net nerf from the original stats, where it had 52 HP previously). You can instakill Luma if you can get in and B-throw her. The key thing is until you do that, RosaLuma has pretty disgusting spacing/walling tools, actually is also crazy good at edgeguarding. Also she's actually noticeably harder to chase into U-smash than most characters because she's very good at weaving in the air.

While that matchup I feel is definitely hard, I'm more worried about Link. Link's new grab game is scary as ****. D-throw -> U-tilt now actually COMBOS and Mario doesn't have a lot of options to deal with it. Then at KO percents you have to worry about D-throw U-air. Especially considering Link's grab range got buffed, you can never safely approach Link when he can pivot grab Mario out of a lot of things, and Link's N-air is also very strong against Mario's Fireball zoning.

Combine that his sword is good for beating a lot of Mario's attacks, pivot F-tilt is really hard for Mario to punish, and that his D-air and N-air both can consistently beat Mario's Up-B...yeah. This matchup is very hard for Mario.

 

[Kulty]

That buff (Luma HP from 47 -> 50) really doesn't change Mario vs Rosalina (it's still a net nerf from the original stats, where it had 52 HP previously). You can instakill Luma if you can get in and B-throw her. The key thing is until you do that, RosaLuma has pretty disgusting spacing/walling tools, actually is also crazy good at edgeguarding. Also she's actually noticeably harder to chase into U-smash than most characters because she's very good at weaving in the air.

While that matchup I feel is definitely hard, I'm more worried about Link. Link's new grab game is scary as ****. D-throw -> U-tilt now actually COMBOS and Mario doesn't have a lot of options to deal with it. Then at KO percents you have to worry about D-throw U-air. Especially considering Link's grab range got buffed, you can never safely approach Link when he can pivot grab Mario out of a lot of things, and Link's N-air is also very strong against Mario's Fireball zoning.

Combine that his sword is good for beating a lot of Mario's attacks, pivot F-tilt is really hard for Mario to punish, and that his D-air and N-air both can consistently beat Mario's Up-B...yeah. This matchup is very hard for Mario.

Isn't it ironic that Mario had an easier time against Link in the previous games, but now he struggles? I don't get that!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Isn't it ironic that Mario had an easier time against Link in the previous games, but now he struggles? I don't get that!

Well Link was just really awful in many more ways in all the other Smash games which made up for the fact he outranged Mario and had an easy time juggling him. In 64 the terrible recovery obviously sucked. In Melee he got CGed to death by Mario. In Brawl the terrible recovery (and his lousy grab reward) again sucked for him. In Smash 4 he was bordering on being almost not terrible, and now thanks to the D-throw changes and everything else that helps Link in this game...I dare say Link is very competitive. So...I don't really see it as so much ironic. It doesn't surprise me really that now Link is not terrible, he beats Mario by design.

 

[Kulty]

Well Link was just really awful in many more ways in all the other Smash games which made up for the fact he outranged Mario and had an easy time juggling him. In 64 the terrible recovery obviously sucked. In Melee he got CGed to death by Mario. In Brawl the terrible recovery (and his lousy grab reward) again sucked for him. In Smash 4 he was bordering on being almost not terrible, and now thanks to the D-throw changes and everything else that helps Link in this game...I dare say Link is very competitive. So...I don't really see it as so much ironic. It doesn't surprise me really that now Link is not terrible, he beats Mario by design.

In terms of competitive, sure, I really love Link in this game, because he can be so viable in tournaments, but the fact that he can beat Mario in this game makes me kinda mixed about that. It's like a love-and-hate relationship with Link. In terms of design, it is debatable imo.

 

[Xeze]

Mario is still competitively viable. Many characters in this game are. He probably will end up in high-mid tier but it's ok. Design-wise he was never meant to be top/high anyways. I'm gonna stick to him, regardless. I have loads of fun playing Mario.

 

[Kulty]

I really wanted to believe that, but it just feels discouraging seeing Mario having a hard time against the best characters. It feels a lot more in For Glory (I know it doesn't count, but I have to mention), because almost nobody in For Glory knows how to use Mario at its fullest potential. I saw who were actually pretty good (which is always nice = dittos). I really will not drop Mario, because he's my main gameplay style since the first Smash game.

Smash 64 mains :
Melee mains : Secondaries : . In training :
Brawl mains : Secondaries :
Smash 4 mains : Secondaries : In training : (such a fun character)

 

[A2ZOMG]

I really wanted to believe that, but it just feels discouraging seeing Mario having a hard time against the best characters. It feels a lot more in For Glory (I know it doesn't count, but I have to mention), because almost nobody in For Glory knows how to use Mario at its fullest potential. I saw who were actually pretty good (which is always nice = dittos). I really will not drop Mario, because he's my main gameplay style since the first Smash game.

Smash 64 mains :
Melee mains : Secondaries : . In training :
Brawl mains : Secondaries :
Smash 4 mains : Secondaries : In training : (such a fun character)

Our matchup against Diddy at least is significantly better now. He's still a strong character that people need to be prepared for, and his most recent nerf actually makes our non-rage combo game reliable on him now that he can no longer easily interrupt nearly as many of Mario's strings with U-air.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I don't see Mario going anywhere. None of the newbies pose a threat to Mario except for Ryu, and even then, I'm withholding judgement until the character has time to develop. For all we know, he could be the next R.O.B. or Palutena. He seems like God one moment, then is just meh (or even plain bad, in Palutena's case) the next. There could be some crippling weakness to Ryu that no one has discovered yet. Even if not, I don't see Big Red dropping more than one spot. He never really stood a chance in top tier to begin with, and the only newbie that could really upset the high tier position that Mario is currently in is Roy, and even then, I don't think Roy is a better character than Mario.

 

[Luggy]

In all honnesty, I don't care where Mario will be in tier lists. I'm mostly maining bottom or low tier characters, and the only big character that I'm using as a secondary is Ryu. But I don't care about tier lists that much.

For Mario itself, there's nothing to be worry about really. He's still a good character, with good and balanced matchups. We have to adapt and make Mario evolve, that's all. Though, to be fair, I feel that Mario's developpement potential isn't really that big compared to other characters. It's just my opinion, but being the most balanced character generally means the developpement won't be as big as other characters. Again, just my opinion.

I don't see Mario going anywhere. None of the newbies pose a threat to Mario except for Ryu, and even then, I'm withholding judgement until the character has time to develop. For all we know, he could be the next R.O.B. or Palutena. He seems like God one moment, then is just meh (or even plain bad, in Palutena's case) the next. There could be some crippling weakness to Ryu that no one has discovered yet. Even if not, I don't see Big Red dropping more than one spot. He never really stood a chance in top tier to begin with, and the only newbie that could really upset the high tier position that Mario is currently in is Roy, and even then, I don't think Roy is a better character than Mario.

Roy's weaknesses are pretty clear, and they are pretty much the same as Melee. What's going to be a problem is Ryu.

Ryu has an enormous developpement potential, being a very technical character coming from the streets. His combo game is big, his frames are excellent, and his KO potential is massive. The only way Mario can outclass him is in the edgeguarding. Even in the recovery, Ryu can be tricky with his Focus Attack (DownB) and can recover pretty easily, though he's still punishable.

Mario won't have a hard time with Roy, but will certainly have one with Ryu.

 

[Kulty]

Our matchup against Diddy at least is significantly better now. He's still a strong character that people need to be prepared for, and his most recent nerf actually makes our non-rage combo game reliable on him now that he can no longer easily interrupt nearly as many of Mario's strings with U-air.

Even though was quite an annoying matchup for , I still think they nerfed him way too hard in this patch. Yeah, it's good for us Mario players, but I really feel bad for Diddy players nowadays. Diddy was perfectly fine in the last patch.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Even though was quite an annoying matchup for , I still think they nerfed him way too hard in this patch. Yeah, it's good for us Mario players, but I really feel bad for Diddy players nowadays. Diddy was perfectly fine in the last patch.

I don't think you've gotten Hoo-Haed enough. It's not just good for us, it's good for everybody that was below him. Which was everybody. They didn't even nerf him seriously last patch, he was still marginally better than everybody else. He's at least balanced now.

 

[Xeze]

I still think Mario has some room for development, even him being the archetype of a balanced character. For example, Mario can instantly grab the ledge, when dropping off the stage, by using a reverse cape. That can lead to easier ledge trumps.

 

[Luggy]

I still think Mario has some room for development, even him being the archetype of a balanced character. For example, Mario can instantly grab the ledge, when dropping off the stage, by using a reverse cape. That can lead to easier ledge trumps.

It's not really a big news, Doc can do that and easier since his sheat has not the same effect as Mario's cape (stalling in the air). I often do that with Doc to grab the edge faster or to ledge trump.