So a few weeks ago I went to a local tournament, got four stocked by a marth on fd (as falco). My friend told me the problem was that every approach i did was shieldgrabbed or cced, and he told me to use grabs more. Problem is, I tried practicing uthrow combos on marth in 20xx and he was able to jump out of most of them. What uthrow combos work reliably on marth? Or should I just go for like f/bthrow to reset neutral?
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Uthrow Combos on Marth
- Thread starter JVIV
- Start date
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
There really isn't much legitimate stuff. Uthrow uair can work sometimes... IDK, it's not really that crucial to combo. The kidea is kinda that, by being okay with grabbing, your opponent won't want to shield as much.
Honestly, it sounds like you have a different issue. If he's CCing your approaches, you're trying to use way too many nairs. If you're getting shieldgrabbed, you're messing up your SHFFL aerials on shield. SHFFL dair has to be low on shield for sure, and be careful with nair, but it's plenty possible for both of them to be safe.
Honestly, it sounds like you have a different issue. If he's CCing your approaches, you're trying to use way too many nairs. If you're getting shieldgrabbed, you're messing up your SHFFL aerials on shield. SHFFL dair has to be low on shield for sure, and be careful with nair, but it's plenty possible for both of them to be safe.
Falco should almost never tomahawk, and Dair straight beats CC.
What about a cross-up tomahawk into pivot grab or shine/shine-turnaround grab? I haven't tried this but I'm curious how viable it is. Also, a tomahawk into shine-grab after conditioning the opponent to expect an aerial going into shield isn't a bad option at all.
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Crossing up their shield is very risky with little payoff. You basically have to read that they'll hold shield, and if you do, there's usually a higher payoff to just start up normal shield pressure.
My definition of tomahawk is just empty jump grab, so thats where some confusion came in, but yes you are correct that a random shine grab can be a good option.
Epic563
Smash Cadet
upthrow fair is amazing at lower percents
First thing I thought when I read OP.
Start watching this at 35:00 for like 15 minutes
https://youtu.be/rpLDKEtvdVQ
Frenzy231199
Smash Cadet
If you're on a platform stage your best bet with Up-Throw is to wait for them to hit the platform and then punish whatever they do after (Usually a F-Air). No followups are true but you should look to see if they get hit by the lasers or not as this changes the hit stun of the throw.
Falco doesn't have great throw follow-ups. "Then why grab at all ?" you might ask. Because grab beats shield. It's as simple as that.
Now don't think straight away that Falco's grab game sucks compared to the rest of the S-tier. Unlike them, who need to DD, punish, tech chase etc, you get grabs almost for free all the time ! Because what lasers and pressure do is making them get in shield way more that against other characters, which in turn lets you grab them for super free. And when they start to see whats happening and do something else, you can punish with dair or take their space if they retreat for example. Shine-grab is good because theres no winning answer for them, and shine is way faster than just grabbing so it keeps you safe if they tried to act faster than you.
Then, what to do with a grab ? F-throw offstage is good, preferably at high %. Otherwise u-throw is best. u-throw>fair is great on mid-wheights like Marth at low%. u-throw>shine on fast-fallers at low%, u-throw>bair/shine>bair at high%.
Often you can't really follow-up, instead you could fake an attack by jumping close to them, to bait a move or their DJ : then you can punish them for it. If they don't bite, next time try and punish them at landing, espescially on platforms (shine>wave-land, rising dair, bair at kill%).
Anyway, when you throw them, be it up or forward, you gain stage positioning. You can make holding center stage a huge advantage in most match-ups, so this is good. Exercise to zone with lasers and aerials, keeping them out. They get pressured and will come in sooner or later, but your stage control will force them in shield invariably, letting you grab'em and either get a punish (catch them on platforms etc) or resume this winning situation for you. This is very very hard to deal with against Falco and will get most opponents to make dumb mistakes eventually. So grab is an important tool in this standard game-plan, because it beats shield fair and square, without having to quad-shine pressure into following rolls or something all the time.
All this was to tell you that when your friend told you to use grabs more, what you should understand and put in practice isn't necessarily to do u-throw combos. Instead, figure out the place that grabs hold in Falco's metagame.
Now don't think straight away that Falco's grab game sucks compared to the rest of the S-tier. Unlike them, who need to DD, punish, tech chase etc, you get grabs almost for free all the time ! Because what lasers and pressure do is making them get in shield way more that against other characters, which in turn lets you grab them for super free. And when they start to see whats happening and do something else, you can punish with dair or take their space if they retreat for example. Shine-grab is good because theres no winning answer for them, and shine is way faster than just grabbing so it keeps you safe if they tried to act faster than you.
Then, what to do with a grab ? F-throw offstage is good, preferably at high %. Otherwise u-throw is best. u-throw>fair is great on mid-wheights like Marth at low%. u-throw>shine on fast-fallers at low%, u-throw>bair/shine>bair at high%.
Often you can't really follow-up, instead you could fake an attack by jumping close to them, to bait a move or their DJ : then you can punish them for it. If they don't bite, next time try and punish them at landing, espescially on platforms (shine>wave-land, rising dair, bair at kill%).
Anyway, when you throw them, be it up or forward, you gain stage positioning. You can make holding center stage a huge advantage in most match-ups, so this is good. Exercise to zone with lasers and aerials, keeping them out. They get pressured and will come in sooner or later, but your stage control will force them in shield invariably, letting you grab'em and either get a punish (catch them on platforms etc) or resume this winning situation for you. This is very very hard to deal with against Falco and will get most opponents to make dumb mistakes eventually. So grab is an important tool in this standard game-plan, because it beats shield fair and square, without having to quad-shine pressure into following rolls or something all the time.
All this was to tell you that when your friend told you to use grabs more, what you should understand and put in practice isn't necessarily to do u-throw combos. Instead, figure out the place that grabs hold in Falco's metagame.
Lol Falco has no legit throw combos. The only time up throw works is if they di the initial throw and don't get hit by lasers. Sometimes upthrow fair works though at lower percents on characters like marth.
After reading this thread though it just seems like your approaching too much and doing it badly too. Shieldgrabs? Do an aerial as low as you can on shield then shine grab.
CC? Dair. Or spam laser to force them to approach
After reading this thread though it just seems like your approaching too much and doing it badly too. Shieldgrabs? Do an aerial as low as you can on shield then shine grab.
CC? Dair. Or spam laser to force them to approach
That's a problem I used to have.
Make it a habit to laser, grab. It'll throw them off their game. There isn't really any guaranteed throw combos, it all depends on their % and DI, but still, it makes them open. Plus, if they realize they can't shield grab you anymore, then you'll be able to do your bread and butter which is approach with dairs, fairs, etc.
Good luck!!
I love playing Marths. Next to other spacies of course 
Make it a habit to laser, grab. It'll throw them off their game. There isn't really any guaranteed throw combos, it all depends on their % and DI, but still, it makes them open. Plus, if they realize they can't shield grab you anymore, then you'll be able to do your bread and butter which is approach with dairs, fairs, etc.
Good luck!!
I love playing Marths. Next to other spacies of course 
Michelangelo
Smash Cadet
At low % u throw fair will get him to around 30%. U throw nair or bair are low risk and pretty reliable follow ups if you follow their DI.
Between 60-80% u throw dair can be very good forkilling or to strike them to the ground. If your aerials are getting shield grabbed you should throw out your aerial later and use more laser grab or bait out the grab with some spaced movement in out of his range.
Between 60-80% u throw dair can be very good forkilling or to strike them to the ground. If your aerials are getting shield grabbed you should throw out your aerial later and use more laser grab or bait out the grab with some spaced movement in out of his range.
