Usmash Invincibility Frames, Fact or Fiction?

[Mmac]

So, there's been rumours going around that Yoshi's Usmash actually having Invincibility Frames, and I decided to test. What I got was mixed results. I did 3 different Test's

First Test was to shoot a projectile, and see if Yoshi was unarmed (I used Samus's Charged Shot and Lucario's Aura Sphere). The results were weird but concluded negative. It seems like it was trying to outprioritize it, but couldn't

2nd Test was against a ground attack, I had Yoshi do a Sliding Usmash toward a Marth doing a Fsmash. The test was inconclusive because they cancelled eachother out.

3rd Test was against Marth's Dair and Fair, and spaced them as such so that Yoshi will hit the Sword, but not Marth himself, and this is where it gets weird. Against his Dair, I clearly saw Marth's Sword go right through and past Yoshi's head, but taking no damage in the process. There wasn't the small priority bubble or anything either, The both did their full attacks, but nobody was harmed. The same thing happened with his Fair. However it looks like the Invincibility Frames are only in his Head (Literary), as his main Body seems to not be protected.

It's weird, but it seems that the Invincibility Frames only activate against other peoples air attacks only. I think it's true, but it's hard to test with everyone else who isn't Marth. Also it seems to be during the peak of his attack when the frames activate. I can't tell for sure, but it does give a reason on why Yoshi's Usmash pretty much beats every air attack that's above him. Is it Invincibility Frames, or just High Priority?

 

[Shiri]

It's a mixture of both.

What happens with regards to invulnerability and priority is that attacks with invulnerability frames tend to have naturally high priority because most attacks won't "stop" or "hurt" the attacker in the case of a tie simply because the user cannot be hit wherever the invulnerability frames may lie. Hmm, this is difficult to explain succinctly, but I'll try.

We all know air attacks do not tie with ground attacks, yes? Well, Meta Knight breaks this rule, but what rule doesn't he break? That one exception aside, we can look to the past workings of the Smash engines over time and see that when air attacks strike grounded attackers, one of two things will happen. 1] The grounded attacker will take damage from the connecting hits. 2] The grounded attacker will not take damage from the connecting hits. The state of the aerial attacker in these examples is negligible since we're only concerned with the ground attacker. In the first case, the grounded attacker is meeting the aerial attacker with a move that has no invulnerability frames. Regardless of how much ground priority the move may have, since air and ground attacks cannot tie, the grounded attacker will take damage (the aerial attacker may or may not take damage depending on the nature of the attack, range, etc.). In the second case, the grounded attacker is meeting the aerial strike with an attack that renders some part of the attack invulnerable. Here, the grounded attacker will remain unharmed while the aerial attacker may or may not take damage for the same reasons in the scenario beforehand.

Now, regarding the up smash in particular and how the invulnerability affects its ground game, it can get complicated. Smash attacks tend to have high-ish priority in general. This, combined with the invulnerability frames that we can assume are present during the attack, can lead to some confusing results while testing. On the ground, we have a couple scenarios to observe. 1] Grounded physical attacks meeting (both joint and disjoint) each other. 2] Grounded attacks meeting projectiles. In the first case, we have two grounded attacks meeting each other; one from an attacker using a move with invulnerability somewhere on it and one from an attacker using a regular move. Now, we know the basic rules of priority state that attacks can either tie or override each other. The only case where invulnerability comes into play regarding two ground attacks is if the invulnerability attack does not have enough natural priority to override the move it is colliding with. If the attacks would naturally tie, invulnerability effects are negligible. If the opposing attack would normally override the inherent priority of the invulnerability attack, the game engine performs some calculation (I would assume it's based on the overlapping hitboxes and how much area of the opposing attack is overlapping the invulnerability boxes compared to how much is overlapping the vulnerability boxes) and, if the result ends in the invulnerability attack's favor (let's guess that the calculation is a simple "is this opposing hitbox covering any invulnerability hitboxes on the opponent?"), then both attacks will go continue their animation, and will end in neither player taking damage (assuming the opposing attacker isn't actually hit with the invulnerability attack at some point).

As for projectiles...I'll be honest when I say I haven't figured it out 100% yet.

I have some clips of fun priority stuff in the Melee Project Y.O.S.H.I. videos and much more in detail in text in that topic. Check it out when you get the chance. Priority seems to have been changed around slightly with this new engine, but it's the same mostly.

To answer your question directly without the extended explanation, though, up smash has invulnerability and high priority.

 

[Deleted member]

Too long; Read anyways.

XD

Thanks for clearin that up shiri, i knew alot, but tis always nice to see ur long WoT.

 

[Kiwikomix]

You can tell Shiri is a posting master because he made a wall of text that just barely fit on the screen without me needing to scroll down.

 

[Shiri]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ^_____^

 

[TheSundanceKid]

Yeah sometimes, I remember I won a match b/c of it.



(300th Post!)